[Crumpler]

Ok. A friend sent me this link:


[https://www.pca.org/news/why-pay-800-fo ... ch-tactics[/url]

It’s long, but fascinating…like a car accident.
The speaker has some GB tendencies, self-promotion and fear mongering. But it’s deep dive into maintenance on contemporary performance vehicles in general.
Factory licensed scanners. Hundreds of independent modules. Half a day to set oil levels, etc.

Obviously, there is a market but it’s not me.

I also wonder what becomes of these cars in 5-10 years. They are not going to do well as garage queens.

[worf]

What specific items in that video rubbed you wrong?

Here's my stream of consciousness as I watched the video.

"Worn-out Race Mechanic"

I have, over 30 years of working on 928s come to the conclusion that there are (at least) three types of "mechanics." Those that are lazy, ignorant, criminal, or just don't give a shit. "Race Mechanics." And those that attempt to do their work and leave no evidence whatsoever that disassembly and assembly has occurred (except, for example the freshly filled-out timing belt sticker on the inside of the right-side belt cover, etc.)

On the subject of no dipstick and the lack of a hole for it "When you open up [put a hole in] the motor it's a lean running condition." Bullshit. That statement shows a complete lack of understanding of lambda control systems since about 1985.

PVD (Porsche Vehicle Diagnostics) starting ~'24 (except for 718) and now on the 992.2s is a real thing. No non-OBD-II diagnostic data is available unless you are plugged-in to the PAG mothership.

"Test Drive #1" - documenting everything that doesn't work or doesn't feel right. I always do this, now, for a 928 that I've never worked on before.

Oil Level on no-dip-stick cars: Biggest problem is that people think that "Max" is the target. (It isn't.) So, shops struggle to deliver the car with oil level right at Max. Their customers - and possibly the technicians - don't understand that is "Max" is Maximum. Not to be exceeded. It’s NOT a target. Anyone that understands "windage" should understand that. But, shops don't want to explain - or can't - that 1/2 or 3/4 on the "pixel stick" is perfectly fine and arguably better than Max. For the Turbo cars it is demonstrably true (because Porsche doesn't provide adequate crank case ventilation for the FI cars.)

All that - oil level NOT at Max - is true for 928s too and especially true for blown 928s.

It is a PITA to get the oil fill level right.

On the 718 forum we've started the process of data gathering with "code readers" so that we can use the raw sender measurement to determine the proper cold fill level for each engine type. This, because with the 718s getting the level display in the dash requires warming up the engine, standing on one leg while rubbing your head and not opening the hatch.

Battery drain on modern cars: Always connect your battery charger when using a diagnostic tool to read codes or reset the service intervals (etc.) Parasitic drain: Starting with the 991 there are very few traditional relays. There is a software driven "relay block" that takes the place of most of the relays. Without knowing what the software is supposed to do (the software requirements which PAG doesn't publish) it's very hard to figure out what's wrong.

Software defined behavior makes it fiendishly difficult to diagnose problems.

Batteries: His 4-year replacement schedule for batteries is bizarre. If it's a car that get's driven a couple of hours per week? Sure. That's death on a battery. For a car that get's driven an hour to work and back 5 times per week? 6 years of you are paranoid. 8 years if you're not. I find that the Porsche batteries (made by Banner) last longer than anything you buy at AutoZone et.al. For cars that get driven occasionally: keep it on a battery tender. For that regimen I find that the Banner batteries will last for 10 years minimum.

Brake fluid every year? I suppose. But every two years? Yes. Must do.

[worf]

Plastic oil pans and 1/4-turn (Volkswagon) drain plugs? Yup. I have one of those in our fleet.

Coolant reservoirs? For the 991 it's - IIRC - a "lower the engine" operation.

Cowl drains. For 991/981/718 that firewall plenum area is open to the ground. There's nothing to worry about.

But, yeah, Boxsters need the body drains checked frequently.

[Crumpler]

Nah. It’s not the guy I have truck with.
It’s the current environment.

Objectively, we (me) are getting further and further away from being able to perform maintenance on modern cars in general and performance platforms more specifically.
I can’t implicate technology alone.
The game seems more successfully rigged.

I personally would be miserable if I had a car I couldn’t touch.
On the flip side, DE is flush with $200,000.00 cars whose owners are quite content to buy designer racing loafers featured in Panorama magazine and be at the mercy of the local dealer for maintenance.
So what do I know?

[Fox_]

I've never owned a vehicle I didn't do my own maintenance on. Starting with a 1998 Land Rover.

I'd let shops do oil changes simply when its convenient, either I'm out of town or for digital service records. However, it's getting expensive. Local dealership 1500' from home suddenly charges $200 for an oil change on an F150... Only to leave oily hand prints on the door. That was the last time I go there.

The 928 hasn't been to a shop in the 10 years I've owned it.

[Crumpler]

Boy, speaking of Ford. How about the shortage of mechanics?
I assume that is industry wide and not just Ford.
Is it American brain atrophy v. generational malaise?
Or is it pay scale?

[XR4Tim]

Boy, speaking of Ford. How about the shortage of mechanics?
I assume that is industry wide and not just Ford.
Is it American brain atrophy v. generational malaise?
Or is it pay scale?

It's not just Ford, and I don't think it's pay scale. I saw a billboard in North Carolina earlier this week for a Kia dealer that was offering a $24k signing bonus for technicians.

I think a big part of the problem was the public school system pushing every high schooler into college and making it sound like working in a trade was for the failures who couldn't get into college. When I was in high school, people would always ask what college you were going to attend. Nobody asked "are you going to go to college?".

[ChrisZ]

Mom almost had to pay $5,000 for a 12 volt battery for the Cayenne since it was sitting for 6 months. Got it to $1,000 because although it's under warranty she did not drive the car the minimum number of miles per year as stipulated in the terms.

(Dad died in 2024, and she drove it to church. Oh well)

Yeah I think they're just money makers at this point.

[N_Jay]

Mom almost had to pay $5,000 for a 12 volt battery for the Cayenne since it was sitting for 6 months. Got it to $1,000 because although it's under warranty she did not drive the car the minimum number of miles per year as stipulated in the terms.

(Dad died in 2024, and she drove it to church. Oh well)

Yeah I think they're just money makers at this point.

Is it Lithium? If not, how do you hit $1000?

$5000 is just fraud or theft!

[worf]

Mom almost had to pay $5,000 for a 12 volt battery for the Cayenne since it was sitting for 6 months. Got it to $1,000 because although it's under warranty she did not drive the car the minimum number of miles per year as stipulated in the terms.

FFS. Buy a battery tender, install ring terminals at the appropriate points and show her how to plug it in.

And $5000 for a 12v battery? How exactly is that a "thing?" Is this a new-gen hybrid?

[amdavid]

5k seems waaay out of line...

According our our AI foes...
The most expensive 12V car batteries are high-performance lithium-ion models, often used for racing or premium upgrades, with prices reaching nearly $1,900 USD

[ranger22]

But on Cayenne you have to remove the front seat and dig it out and then reprogram the system for the battery type and condition. Not saying this justifies the price, but it seems to be the justification stealerships use.

[lupo.sk]

But on Cayenne you have to remove the front seat and dig it out and then reprogram the system for the battery type and condition. Not saying this justifies the price, but it seems to be the justification stealerships use.

That’s a 40min job even with supee basic tools. And even if you don’t program it, it works.

[amdavid]

Agreed, easy job. Those frkin stealerships are ridiculous!

I will say this about do it yourselfing on a battery replacement in the Cayenne, watch your back!...literally, the last back injury I had was from lifting and twisting to try and get that anchor of a battery out!

But on Cayenne you have to remove the front seat and dig it out and then reprogram the system for the battery type and condition. Not saying this justifies the price, but it seems to be the justification stealerships use.

That’s a 40min job even with supee basic tools. And even if you don’t program it, it works.

[N_Jay]

Change to an Li battery and it will be easy to get out next time.

I would be pissed enough to ask for an itemized explanation.

[worf]

My question wasn't rhetorical. I was wondering if there was something super-special or particularly weird about the grandma's new-gen Cayenne battery. Like maybe it's the 400v battery pack in an e-hybrid or something.

If it's just the 12v battery we all know and love... then $5k estimate is Elder Abuse.

[MFranke]

I stopped taking my 928 into the shop in the late 90s, because it more often was coming back with issues due to fading tech familiarity with 928s. I enjoy taking care of them myself now. I imagine recent production Porsches will eventually reach the same issue, where shop mechanics have moved on to servicing newer cars. Though I can't imagine how owners of new Porsches would handle this scenario and transition to doing their own maintenance on these newer cars, with all the software dependence and specialized equipment needed. Maybe AI could help with developing diagnostics tools, but then there is also the challenge of more glued parts and otherwise integrated components, etc.