Open Road

This looks like a bell ringer, exceptional example with a complete engine rebuild - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994- ... gn_2560924.

However, Greg may have given it the kiss of death. Dave, your initial reaction was very favorable. What do you think about Greg's view on it?

linderpat wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:22 am This looks like a bell ringer, exceptional example with a complete engine rebuild - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994- ... gn_2560924.

However, Greg may have given it the kiss of death. Dave, your initial reaction was very favorable. What do you think about Greg's view on it?

As a rule, that I broke yesterday , I don’t comment on auctions anymore. I should have kept my fucking mouth shut.

There are no details on the engine rebuild.

You never know how good is a technician until you take apart their work.

Greg’s post is innuendo that the original coating on the pistons is gone. If this is indeed the case, then that motor will not run for very long and the result will be a second engine build but +$20k due to cylinder wall damage.

Those look like what I remember GTS pistons look like. It’s been 15 years since I’ve seen one out. They look clean. Perhaps too clean. And the presence of the oil drain holes is suspicious too. OTOH new 968 pistons look suspiciously clean. IIRC the “magnet test” can be used to check for the presence of the coating.

IMO, The overall condition of that ‘94 is too good to be true for the miles. My ‘94 GTS 5-speed led a nice life and has ~1/2 the miles but shows slightly more wear on its classic gray interior. The paint on the BaT GTS seems too good for the mileage too.

I find it sad that for all the engine work done, nothing was replated. Original fuel lines too.

There are no records for any work. No service history. When was the PSD last flushed? Are the fuel lines indeed original or were they replaced once before the two that are molded went NLA (circa 2006.) And even then, those lines are 18 years old now…

<shrug>


Question asked by peanut gallery about why rebuild needed at 80k: ignorance. What’s the expected lifetime of head gaskets? 30 years? Well… then they are due. A better question is: why was it rebuilt?

Buyer will be flipping a coin on the rebuild. But, without a rebuild it’s still a coin flip. It’s *aways* a coin flip unless the 928 in question has been “gone through” and then by whom? Howard? Me? Greg? Stan? Sean?

This is why I shouldn’t comment on auctions. Ever.

So, rather than go out to the shop... in a fit of procrastination ... I took a look at some of my pictures.

I last saw the top of a GTS piston in 2010. The pistons on the BaT GTS do appear to be GTS pistons.

There are two things that make me go "hmmm"

- There is not enough carbon build up on the piston tops on the BaT GTS. Original GTS engines ingested so much oil that by 80k miles the build up should be sufficient to leave marks on the buildup where the valves were "banging it" away. (I'm talking 1/8" to 1/4" build up...)
- Oil drain holes for the oil control ring. Legend has it that original GTS pistons do not have the holes drilled.

These two observations mean to me:
- The BaT car has a warranty Porsche replacement engine due to excessive oil ingestion (IIRC something like 20% of GTS engines were replaced under warranty for oil consumption in excess of 1l/1000 km. And ... that warranty motors had oil drain holes in the pistons. Serial number from option sticker would tell the tail. (EDIT: see below.)

Or

- This motor has been out before.

Possibly both.

And hopefully what will be my last act of procrastination-by-posting...

Anyone that - today - buys a fixed-only-when-broken 928 or one without service records, should have $30 to $50k in the back pocket or the excess cash-flow to handle that level of outlay over roughly 5 years.

This, assuming they want to drive it and not have it break every month or two, instead of just parking it hoping for its potential as an investment. And assuming they aren't buying it to be a project car on which they intend to expend many hundreds of hours.

928 are 80s supercars with none less than 29 years old now.

What would one expect buying an 80s Ferrari or Lamborghini with no service records? (At least twice that much needed in the back pocket if not more.)

Photo 194 could give a clue as to the replacement pistons, probably prompting Greg's comment.

OMG BB!

You’re right! I was so busily staring at the pistons themselves that I didn’t look at the box!

My “head guy” (who does a fuck-ton more than just heads) concurs with Greg that the only piston coating that works in Porsche AluSil blocks is that which comes on pistons from Mahle-Germany (and not, specifically, Mahle-USA.)

So, if those are indeed schiesco pistons the next question to ask is: how many hours/miles of operation since rebuild.

And this little bit from the listing would have me concerned:

The engine was disassembled and rebuilt during a period from 2018 to 2021 by SCAN Automotive in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, which is noted to have involved honing the cylinders in addition to replacing the timing belt, water pump, main bearings, pistons, rings, and more.

Christine wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:13 pm And this little bit from the listing would have me concerned:

The engine was disassembled and rebuilt during a period from 2018 to 2021 by SCAN Automotive in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, which is noted to have involved honing the cylinders in addition to replacing the timing belt, water pump, main bearings, pistons, rings, and more.

Ok. Something else I missed in my reading of the text.

I did look at the cylinder walls the first time through looking for any signs of chevy block treatment (i.e. cross-hatching) and didn’t see it.

Looking again #187 worries me. Below cropped:

That -^ doesn’t look right.

This is the best picture I have of a properly "repolished-with-the-Sunen-process" cylinder wall I can find quickly.

Note that it is almost a mirror finish with few irregularities.

https://scanautomotive.com/projects/

doesn’t show that 928 on their projects page.

I just talked with Kyle and the consensus is: might be ok. might not be ok.

worf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:30 am Serial number from option sticker would tell the tail.

So, this -^ is wrong. At least as early as '89. Engine and transmission model codes are on the tank sticker but not serial numbers.

Engine serial number is not on the Window Sticker for my '91. And my '91 has no duplicate option sticker in its books. There's supposed to be a duplicate - IIRC - with the books.

I know, somewhere, I've seen a sticker/paper with VIN and engine/transaxle serial numbers...

I must be going senile.

Great info here. I wouldn’t bid this one to record levels with these unknowns. Will be interesting to see where it lands.

couple of observations:
Pistons are proud of the deck, that's going to up the compression significantly due to issues with quench.
who is going to rebuild an engine and leave the outside of the block all grimy like that? same for cylinder heads. Lifters are all scuffed up... looks like they scuffed them in a cross hatching pattern on purpose....

Looks to be a really nice grenade waiting to happen.

maddog2020 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:32 pm Pistons are proud of the deck, that's going to up the compression significantly due to issues with quench.

Picture 208? I saw that but figured it was an optical illusion. ‘cause surely no one would actually do that? 10.4:1 ratio of the GTS, IMO, already at the limit of what LH2.3/EZK can control (for a street motor subject to gradual degradation.) If the ratio is actually higher then that’s going to be another problem.

maddog2020 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:32 pm Lifters are all scuffed up... looks like they scuffed them in a cross hatching pattern on purpose....

Picture 219. Lol.

maddog2020 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:32 pm Looks to be a really nice grenade waiting to happen.

The more I see the more I regret my first comment on that auction.

Note to self: never post during breakfast.

I really hope the builder chimes in about the cylinder honing. That's a biggie, not yet addressed.

First, thanks for the discussion here. Very useful/educational for me. I know Dave has a policy now to not comment on auctions but this truly is helpful.

Second, since I’m still learning people’s real names, who is Howard? I know the others mentioned above.

JBT3 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:19 am I know Dave has a policy now to not comment on auctions but this truly is helpful.

Very precisely - I attempt to refrain from commenting on auctions on the auction sites. On this site I will speak my mind and, as is highlighted in this thread, whether I’m in, or out of it.

JBT3 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:19 am who is Howard? I know the others mentioned above.

Howard Wright.

https://europeanclassicsatl.com/index.html

He’s forgotten more about 928s than I will ever know.
He’s started as a trained dealer tech 50 years ago.
The knowledge at the tip of his mental fingers is astonishing.
He’s pretty much as anal-retentive as I am.

In recent years he’s been attending Frenzy and SITM.

I’m thinking someone should post a comment to the BaT thread:

“How many miles has this GTS been driven since the engine was rebuilt?”

That would be a good one Dave, but I'm just going to sit on the sidelines for this one.

I wonder if “SocalSuzzy” is related to Greg or Rob…

$101K plus fees. Pretty good price, especially considering the flattening of the market lately (as noted by the 3 special sharks that sold day be fore yesterday in Europe way under estimates)

Please oh please don’t give the new owner my contact info. I already have a BaT-dead-engine job on the schedule; don’t need a second.

(But, i do hope that GTSs engine works.)

worf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 10:39 am I wonder if “SocalSuzzy” is related to Greg or Rob…

I thought that was one of you guys. LOL