Open Road

Hi Guys,

I want to change the soft lines for the SS braided ones but almost everything is seized at the hard line "T".
I want to change the hard lines too, but both the left and main one (from the front) are seized at the "T". The right one there is ok.
The oil you see is from the line at the top of the "T" (right side).
If I can get the left one out, that would be perfect. But is rounded a bit... :(
The last thing I want is to change the main line from the front...
Any trick to remove those line at the "T"?
Thanks in advance.

Induction heater.

https://boltbusterinc.com/

Get a proper 11mm flare wrench. Get the fitting smokin’. Brake fluid (no matter how much you drained) will shoot out the other end of the line, so consider that.

With the fitting smoking hot, use the flare wrench to “work” the fitting back and forth.

It may take 30+ minutes of heat, lather, rinse, repeat to get it free.

Counter hold the t-fitting.

You don’t want to mess up the supply line from the ABS pump (unless you have the motor out…)

Oh: *ventilate* you do not want to huff the fumes.

Thanks Dave.
I surely don't want to mess with the line from the ABS...
I'll take a good look at all your suggestions and get back with other questions if I have any.
Thanks again.

Bertrand Daoust wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:45 pm Thanks Dave.
I surely don't want to mess with the line from the ABS...
I'll take a good look at all your suggestions and get back with other questions if I have any.
Thanks again.

There are, apparently, “Chineseium” induction heaters available from Harbor Freight if you don’t want The Real Deal.

To make sure, I need to open a bleeder nipple (or cut the line) before I heat anything, right?

I'm trying to find an induction heater near by from friends. I might end up buying a cheap one on Amazone or any where else. Any suggestion (link)?
Thanks again!

oh that looks like an ugly job Bertrand! Good luck with it.

Yes, not the easiest job I have done.
Should get through this one like others I have done in the past. At least, I hope! :)
Thanks Ed.

Bertrand Daoust wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:49 am To make sure, I need to open a bleeder nipple (or cut the line) before I heat anything, right?

I figured you had your caliper and flexible line off already.

Having the caliper and line off is a prerequisite for using the induction heater on the t-junction fittings.

You can “unwind” the caliper from the flex line. If the flex-to-hardline junction is seized, you start there with the heater.

Whatever is “open” needs a catch bottle.

Bertrand Daoust wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:49 am I'm trying to find an induction heater near by from friends. I might end up buying a cheap one on Amazone or any where else. Any suggestion (link)?

Sorry B. I posted my suggestion. I’ve no experience with the cheap knockoffs.

In other situations folks might suggest a propane torch. In that location I think that’s a recipe for disaster for melty bits.

You can try various ways to heat the fitting: high current soldering iron, contact heat transfer to the t-junction from something made red hot safely away from the melty bits, etc. Use your imagination.

Those will only work with a lot of luck. Induction heater acts directly on the steel of the fitting without as much direct effect on the hardline. The junction should be brass; it won’t heat as much. You need to “shock” the rust/corrosion on the threads and that between the fitting and the section of line about which the fitting must rotate. You need a lot of differential expansion, but in both vectors (expand away from line, contract in t-junction) of the fitting. Thus, why many cycles required.

And a reminder: use a proper flare/line wrench on the fitting when you are “working” it. Not an open-end wrench.

(I suppose you could slip, over the length of the hard line, a closed-end on it.)

Bought the flare/line wrench this morning.
Don't want to work there with open flame for sure. Thanks for reminder.
I can remove the soft line from the caliper without any problem.
Or simply cut it I guess.
I will go on with my search for an induction heater.
Thanks Dave (and all) for your help.
Appreciated.

worf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:38 pm Induction heater.

https://boltbusterinc.com/

Just watched a video on that tool...that's bad ass.. thanks for sharing.

checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:10 pm Just watched a video on that tool...that's bad ass.. thanks for sharing.

No fastener can withstand it :)

I did a 100% suspension/bushings/arms/brakes/knuckles/hub replacement on a ‘79 two years ago. Most of the fasteners hadn’t been touched since ‘79.

That tool got a workout and the job would have been almost impossible without it.

worf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:38 pm Induction heater.

https://boltbusterinc.com/

Get a proper 11mm flare wrench. Get the fitting smokin’. Brake fluid (no matter how much you drained) will shoot out the other end of the line, so consider that.

With the fitting smoking hot, use the flare wrench to “work” the fitting back and forth.

It may take 30+ minutes of heat, lather, rinse, repeat to get it free.

Counter hold the t-fitting.

You don’t want to mess up the supply line from the ABS pump (unless you have the motor out…)

Fwiw have had same issue. Oil soak plus heating with a soldering iron has done the trick for me. Yes to flare wrench! Tap around it. Then work back and forth for sure, and take your time.

Thanks for the tips Franke.
I'm waiting for parts right now.
I want to have everything in hand before doing anything else.
I have flare wrenches and an (cheap) induction tool in hand.
Thanks again.

My auto-shop teacher would slap the back of your head if he saw you touch a brake line with anything but a flare-nut wrench!

Hey Bertrand, are you re-using the rusted nuts you're trying to remove?
Are they going to hold the brake pressure or leak or are you installing new ones (this is my interest)

I see this repair in my future that's why I am so interested in this task.
Good luck

hessank wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:06 am Hey Bertrand, are you re-using the rusted nuts you're trying to remove?
Are they going to hold the brake pressure or leak or are you installing new ones (this is my interest)

I see this repair in my future that's why I am so interested in this task.
Good luck

Once you get the hardline removed, as long as the hex-part of the fitting is in good shape you can ‘clean it up’, refinish it, and continue to use it.

If the fittings are too damaged for reuse then you have two practical choices:
- buy new lines from Porsche
- make your own lines from Cunifer and metric fittings with a flaring tool.

Replacing the fittings on the OE hardline is a practical impossibility unless you have access to a *big* hydraulic flaring tool.

Hi Fred,

I'm changing the two rear brake lines for new ones (from Porsche). Top and bottom ones at the "T".
My plan is to keep the "T" in place as I don't want to mess with the front line from the ABS. Left line on the "T".
I'm also changing all four soft lines.

Thanks gentlemen

A little update...
Both side rear hard lines are removed.
Induction heater, flare wrench, vise grip, cutter did the trick.
Now I will need to pass the new right line over the transmission... Hum...
There is two plastic holders. One is quite easy to reach but I had to cut the line to slide it out of the second one. Right over the transmission. The new line will not go through this one for sure... No, I'm not dropping the transmission to put it back there... :)
Thanks for your help.
Should have the parts this week. Hope to have everything done (for that job) by the end of this week.
More to follow...

Bertrand Daoust wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 4:57 pm Now I will need to pass the new right line over the transmission... Hum...
There is two plastic holders. One is quite easy to reach but I had to cut the line to slide it out of the second one. Right over the transmission. The new line will not go through this one for sure... No, I'm not dropping the transmission to put it back there... :)

I have fitted new ones without dropping anything. I don’t recall any super special trick. Maybe I needed to loosen an axle shaft or something.

Stare at it a while and it’ll come to you.

Those OE lines are super tough. Don’t be afraid of bending it just a bit if you have to.

All the back is done.
New hard lines and SS soft line are installed.
Everything went well.
No problem at all installing the right hard line over the transmission.
The only thing is that it's clipped only on one of the two plastic support.
No way to get to the one over the transmission...
Next is the front.
Waiting for information on the banjo bolts. The ones supplied in the kit are too long.
While working on rear brake line, I removed the muffler from the cat and painted the 3 heat shields.
Everything is back in place.

Good work B.

So… what are the zip ties on the transaxle crossmember doing?

Thanks Dave.
I knew you would notice... :)
I don't remember exactly, but I think they're there to help to hold the parking brake cable on the other side of the cross member that was not tight enough for me. I did that job in 2010 if I remember well.

Hey Bertrand. I did a test on a set of the banjo bolts on an S4 caliper today and found the issue. It's not the length of the threaded portion but the depth of the bolt head on the new bolts. It's off by a bit less than a mm but that is preventing the crush on the washers. Roger is going to talk to the manufacturer about this. If you double up on the crush rings on the head side they will fit (not ideal) or re-use your old bolt and it will be fine.

Nice work Bertrand!

Thanks Ed.

The car is back on the road! :)