Open Road

thanks Dave, i have contacted CarBone and will see if they get back to me.
cheers
Phil

Well, shit. This one ain’t leaving on Sunday.

One more datum for my saying: “19 of 20 928s that roll into the shop that I’ve never seen before have something wrong with the timing belt system.”

OK who did that?

Mrmerlin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:15 pm OK who did that?

A shop in the NE that a decade-and-a-half ago employed a 928 expert but, a couple of years and a couple of k-miles ago, no longer did.

Any guesses on what brand water pump the shop used for which they charged $275 in 2018? I’m guessing Hamburg-Technic (or maybe it’s a ScheissCo…)

Doing this (below) was the plan for tomorrow. No longer.

worf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:54 pm Well, shit. This one ain’t leaving on Sunday.

One more datum for my saying: “19 of 20 928s that roll into the shop that I’ve never seen before have something wrong with the timing belt system.”

Is it a square tooth belt in a round tooth gear?

It looks like someone did not order their parts from Roger.. Obviously referring to the photo above.
My kit arrived from Hans, and will be installed in the spring.

linderpat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:58 pm Is it a square tooth belt in a round tooth gear?

It is.

I'm sure glad I ordered all my parts from Roger!

Don Smith wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:04 pm It looks like someone did not order their parts from Roger.. Obviously referring to the photo above.

Babado wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:16 pm I'm sure glad I ordered all my parts from Roger!

Let’s not get the cart too far ahead of the horse here folks.

I do not know from whom the shop that did the pictured fuck-up ordered the parts.

It is possible that Roger provided the parts. But, it wouldn’t have been his fault. There’s context you don’t have.

The subject 928 is a ‘78. So the square toothed belt might, normally, be correct.

However, this ‘78 has a hybrid motor. It’s an ‘85 32v 5-liter short block with 4.7 heads and cams with a single distributor CIS system. In general it’s a curious mix of ‘78, ‘84, and ‘85 parts. Whoever built the engine 25 years ago knew, it seems, what they were doing. It’s the monkey that did a belt service 4 yeas ago that deserves your contempt.

The supplier of parts can only act on what they are told. What’s unforgivable is that the previous “tech” was so unfocused that they didn’t notice that they put a square-toothed belt on a round-toothed gear set. Also, unforgivable is a shop that would change only the belt and water pump without changing the rollers, bushings, pivot bolt, and rebuilding the tensioner.

All of these “oversights” are being corrected by me.

This ‘78 will be leaving with a correctly-done belt service and a whole bunch of ‘87 parts. That will be the subject of a new thread when I have time. Here’s a related picture.

It's alive.

i am very impressed with carbone for the very helpful and professional way they do business, air pump stickers should be with me in a couple of weeks, thanks again Dave

Glacier vs. Grand Prix White

The Dayco 219SP254H timing belt is said to be universal and fit all engines 1977 to 1995.
I been have able to obtain an early design square teeth timing gear for testing. The Dayco timing belt do not fit very well on the gear, the "valley" between the teeth is not deep enough. The belt is riding on the edge of the belt teeth. However I have heard of someone using the Dayco belt on an early car having early design timing gears with no issue. The conclusion is that the Dayco timing belt should be used with late design rounded teeth timing gears.
Åke
PS The groove at the top of the belt tooth is said to reduce noise.

out with the old bits. It's all of these little things that need attention in a TB/WP job.

Strosek Ultra wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:57 am The conclusion is that the Dayco timing belt should be used with late design rounded teeth timing gears.

You advocate using a (Dayco) square-tooth belt on round-tooth gears?

linderpat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:54 am out with the old bits. It's all of these little things that need attention in a TB/WP job.

Ed, if that picture is current, I advocate tossing it all(*) in the garbage and upgrading to '83-84 parts:

928-105-540-05 Tensioner Arm, 83-84(**)
928-105-571-06 Idler Roller
928 105 613 04 Roller Carrier Bushing (x2)
928 105 570 03 Carrier Shoulder Bolt

(*) The tensioner roller you are throwing away anyway. Keep the fasteners and circlip for it.

The pivot bolt for the 'old' carrier arms is no longer available. (You can get reproductions but you have to dig) The 'old' bushings are weak. Your 'small' pivot bolt may be bent and even if not is subject to fatigue since it carries ALL if the load from belt tension.

The '83-84 carrier arm makes use of the bigger pivot bolt and better, bigger bushings all of which are available and used all the way to '95 so it is likely that they will always be available. The later-style idler roller is rebuildable and thus will save about $100 at the next change interval and you can use a better bearing than what ships in the "assembled" roller.

(**) Based upon my very-recent research only the '83-84 arm uses the "big" parts and also works with pre-'83 tensioner bodies. In '85 both parts were changed and pre-'85 tensioners/carriers cannot be mixed with '85 or newer.

Hi Dave - that was from a number of years ago, from Blumaxx when I did the job. A '78. I got new rollers and bushings from Roger, and all was good (and still is, but Alex don't drive it much these days )

h2pmr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:43 pm i am very impressed with carbone for the very helpful and professional way they do business, air pump stickers should be with me in a couple of weeks, thanks again Dave

You're welcome. The carbone folks are great. I hope they don't get nuked.

linderpat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:22 pm Hi Dave - that was from a number of years ago, from Blumaxx when I did the job. A '78. I got new rollers and bushings from Roger, and all was good (and still is, but Alex don't drive it much these days )

Ah.

Here's a '78:

I used Carbone for a few labels. Pricey, but worth it to me every time I open the door.

Very happy with Carbone too.

Hi there.

SeanR wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:18 pm Hi there.

Is that Roger’s new Invisible Control Arm Bushing? Pretty spiffy.

I’ve got some old ones if you need’em.

From 2017... :)

happy new year to all
cheers
Phil

Found some pics circa 2018
The dark times of forced induction.

h2pmr wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:34 pm

I note that your stickers are different. I appears that the part number for the "guts" of the unit are the same (017 00), but the big sticker is different. I assume that that different part number is for the manifold on the rear? Wrong-hand-drive cars needing different plumbing for hoses from the pump?

Crumpler wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:19 am Found some pics circa 2018
The dark times of forced induction.

Ya figure... what... a 1/2-roll of duct tape and it'll be all good?

Apropos toothed belts: saw this today when doing a test-drive of an S4 that rolled into the shop this morning.

Never fails. T-belt problems flock to me. (Also, note oil pressure...)

worf wrote:

h2pmr wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:34 pm

I note that your stickers are different. I appears that the part number for the "guts" of the unit are the same (017 00), but the big sticker is different. I assume that that different part number is for the manifold on the rear? Wrong-hand-drive cars needing different plumbing for hoses from the pump?

90% of people are right handed so it just feels natural to hold the steering with your right and and change gear with your left hand, but maybe thats why autos are so popular in the US as you might struggle to steer with you left hand when changing gear
the only 2 pumps i have that stickers are still intact are as below, so i sent them that picture
but now i look closely at my original sticker the top part number should be 109 not 108 but i can live with that
if i get really bored this summer i might also ask them to make some copies of the belt tag below, if they could do all the writing on a single sheet of clear sticky plastic then they could just be stuck onto thin alloy sheets cut to size.
for the concourse crowd.
cheers
Phil

Machine Learning Label =
Light at the End of the Tunnel

Removed the pod and instrument panel to install complete set of new incandescent bulbs to replace the 28 year old OE incy's - 2 of which did not last the full 28 years. Used Schocki's procedure, which worked well (however it did take me a lot longer than 15 minutes - I've only done this job twice before on S4's, and that was 15 or more years ago, so the learning curve had been obliterated). I also cheated and removed the steering wheel/airbag, as I'm replacing the wheel/clockspring with a 996 twin turbo wheel. My mid octogenarian body DOES NOT like to work under the dash!!!

h2pmr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:57 am 90% of people are right handed so it just feels natural to hold the steering with your right and and change gear with your left hand, but maybe thats why autos are so popular in the US as you might struggle to steer with you left hand when changing gear

'prolly some truth to that. I'm much more comfortable with the stick in the right hand.

h2pmr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:57 am but now i look closely at my original sticker the top part number should be 109 not 108 but i can live with that

Ok. So, no mystery here.

Move along folks. Nothing to see here.

I've neglected this thread for too long.

The winter project car arrived a couple of weeks ago. I'm mildly shocked that it was able to be driven the four-ish hour trip here without suffering spontaneous exothermic self-disassembly. This is what I found within a few minutes of starting my (now required) end-to-end-and-top-to-bottom inspection for any 928 I've not seen before:

It gets better:

I-chiwahwah.

y caramba!

Devek Days 2004 "Custom 928"

Task completed - nice new incy light bulbs in the instrument panel, 996 clock spring installed along with the turbo wheel I bought about 8-10 years ago. All the lights light, and all the functions work - HURRAH!! My body is definitely glad it will not be doing Porsche 928 pod/instruments again over the rest of my life!!

I've always 'hated' the 1st edition Porsche airbag steering wheels that require me to remember to find a button when I need to honk the horn (maybe it's even unsafe in emergencies - just my opinion). So nice to hit the center of the wheel and have the horn toot loudly now!

Clear side markers installed on one side, with appropriate LED bulbs (amber front, red rear (resistor not installed yet for rear LED)).

Question: we are not supposed to tighten the [wing] nuts on the brackets holding these side lights in, but I saw no lock washer or lock nut. How tight is loose enough to not crack the lense yet tight enough for them not to vibrate loose over time? Should I introduce a lock washer or put a dab of something on the threads?

@Hernanca,

Where did you get the clear sidemarkers? Haven't seen any available for a long time. Interested in some for front of '87-'95 model.

Gary

Gary,

Reach out to Thomas "Thommy" Weber:

[email protected]

He was the source for Nicole (Hooked on Cars) and does excellent work.

I told him you are interested in some 87-95 fronts (I don't know if they differ from the earlier ones). I also invited him to join Open Road.

Funny thing is I bought these from Thommy several years ago, and when I went to install them, I found a set I had bought from Nicole some years before I bought Thommy's. It is a good thing however, since I broke one of the socket tabs on the rear fit effort (see pic). My rears are problematic because I have Jaquemond fiberglass rear quarters and the side lamp openings are fiberglass and not exactly the stock shape.

Thank you Hernanca. I'll be contacting Thommy in a few weeks after I return home.

Gary

Gary Knox wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:45 pm ... 996 clock spring installed along with the turbo wheel I bought about 8-10 years ago. All the lights light, and all the functions work -

Gary, what do you need to mess with to do that upgrade? Is the airbag connector the same? You just need a 996 clock spring assembly and the wheel?

David,

Yes, you need the wheel and the clock spring. You also have to 'deepen' the hole in the wheel by about 5mm so you get full thread contact with the nut holding the wheel onto the shaft. That is essentially it. I'll send you some text/pix I have saved that should be helpful. I may not have them on this laptop, but I'll get them to you when I get home in mid March if I don't.

Gary

wow, what's it in for Sean?

linderpat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:07 am wow, what's it in for Sean?

General look over and do what needs to be done. Was purchased at Bonhams auction a month ago, owner has not driven it yet. Shipped it here to have it looked over first.