Page 1 of 2
New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:37 am
by checkmate1996
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:06 am
by The Fat Man
Brad, is that a Euro 16V twin dizzy, or Euro 32V?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:24 am
by linderpat
Welcome to the 85 guards red 5 speed manual club Brad - we are indeed an exclusive bunch!
Let's seesome of those interior pictures. Here are a couple of mine:
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:32 pm
by Redgt
It also looks like it has a set of hard to find “club Sport” wheels. They only came one year on the 1989 GT. Check to make sure they are 8” front and 9” rears, if so, they alone are worth big money!
Oh yea, red ones are faster also!
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:29 pm
by captainOCD
Cool
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:21 pm
by Daniel5691
Hey, nice car. Congratulations.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:31 pm
by checkmate1996
Thanks all for the replies! Ed- she looks great!
First order of business is dealing with a crank no start condition.
Changed out ezk, fuel pump and lh relays.
Engine and battery terminal grounds sparkling
Grounds on cam towers - sparkling
Changed out fuel pump as old one was bad
Getting fuel pressure and spark at #1 cylinder.
Verified the belt on the distributor is in tact
See fuel upon pulling plug 1
CPS looks newer - I need to verify tach bounce.
Have not changed relay number four yet
Additional tips welcome!
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:34 pm
by linderpat
Redgt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:32 pm
It also looks like it has a set of hard to find “club Sport” wheels. They only came one year on the 1989 GT. Check to make sure they are 8” front and 9” rears, if so, they alone are worth big money!
Oh yea, red ones are faster also!
Good eye Bob, I didn't look closely and just "saw" D90's
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:10 am
by checkmate1996
It looks like the tach is dead on crank. Even though the CPS sensor looks in good shape I’m presuming it’s not working. The LH is kicking over the fuel pump in startup so I’m also presuming the computer is ok.
The next thing I’m trying to figure as well is for some reason b23 was cut and sliced into f25 which is the EZK RELAY AND control unit. Any reason why that would occur?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:08 am
by Landseer
I've seen alarm bypassed that way on cars 85 up.
My preference is to unplug the flat 8 pin connector tucked behind panel and bridge there. It's a fat yellow and thin red / blkwire IIRC. Same wires, diff place.
(Just checked, yes, alarm jump. If done instead at 8 pin flat , it will be terminals 1 and 4 that correspond. On alarm delete 85 they install a factory jumper wire across and leave it unplugged.)
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:15 am
by checkmate1996
Thanks!!! Makes me feel a little better!
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:01 am
by Wil
checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:31 pm
Thanks all for the replies! Ed- she looks great!
First order of business is dealing with a crank no start condition.
Changed out ezk, fuel pump and lh relays.
Engine and battery terminal grounds sparkling
Grounds on cam towers - sparkling
Changed out fuel pump as old one was bad
Getting fuel pressure and spark at #1 cylinder.
Verified the belt on the distributor is in tact
See fuel upon pulling plug 1
CPS looks newer - I need to verify tach bounce.
Have not changed relay number four yet
Additional tips welcome!
If you get only lights, but not a sound when turning the key, it may be the crank sensor. You don't even get the starter solenoid ticking, dead silent. I've only had that happen once in 25 years. If you need to have the CPUs checked, I have used Electronik Repair in AZ. I have also had them rebuild the MAF. I recommend this if it hasn't been done. The performance drops off so gradually, that it made a big difference when reconditioned. I also have an 85 S2 manual.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:29 pm
by checkmate1996
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 pm
by Wil
With CPS it is dead as a doornail, there will be no cranking. At least it was so when it happened to me. Another no start that you can check quickly is Temp Sensor II. I'll have to look at which pins on the CPU connector to check. You can check resistance to get an idea if it is working. It's also a long shot item but it's easy to check.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm
by worf
Wil wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 pm
With CPS it is dead as a doornail, there will be no cranking.
That is not the way the system operates. The starter circuit is independent of the CPS. You can even unplug the ECUs and the starter will still crank.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
by h2pmr
ideal lift for a garage, compressed air or hydraulic operated ?
and would it go any higher?
and a lovely looking car as well
cheers
Phil
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:19 pm
by checkmate1996
Yeah it’s a good lift. Covers about 80% of what I need to do. Goes up 44”. I’ve had it now for about 16 years. Wow how tine flies.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:52 pm
by checkmate1996
Well new Bosch crank position sensor was not the answer. I saw the tach bounce once when cranking but that’s it. Could the computer need rebuilt? Going to check out temp 2 sensor next . ... r
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:11 pm
by checkmate1996
Temp 2 sensor 2.89 and 2.86 respectively
I did shoot some starting fluid in the intake and she started right up...
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:33 pm
by checkmate1996
Swapped EZK and LH. No difference ...
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:14 am
by checkmate1996
Ok since both computer don’t work , I had to start looking elsewhere. Following the test procedure in WSM, it says unplug LH and test voltage on 9 and 5 with ignition on. I am getting nothing. No bueno. It then says if you do not get reading, don’t panic yet, and pull EZK and jumper and pull reading- still nothing.
I have verified power at both u11 and u12. In fact, if I jumper the LH connection at 30/87 I can get a reading at the 9/5 pin outs at voltage with the EZK relay in. (Also I am working with all brand new Bosch relays). So you might say it’s the relay. Well I tried a few and no difference In results. I’ve tried re-reading voltage with the different relays in for the LH and jumper EZK. Still no reading at 9/5 pin out.
Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:47 am
by worf
checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:14 am
Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Are you using the EZK troubleshooting guide when you should be using the EZF troubleshooting guide?
Are you writing EZK when you mean EZF?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:50 am
by checkmate1996
LOL - Yes - I meant EZF -- I guess in my mind I like the sound of EZK better...hahaha
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manua
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:58 am
by worf
checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:50 am
LOL - Yes - I meant EZF -- I guess in my mind I like the sound of EZK better...hahaha
Ok. Good.
So, you’re getting spark on #1. Might be a good idea to check at least one more on the other distributor.
And you have fuel on at least one plug.
Starter cranks.
Yes?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:13 am
by checkmate1996
Yes...starter cranks fine and strong. Strong voltage on battery. 13.5+ volts. I'll double check spark on a different distributor...
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:14 am
by checkmate1996
I also jumpered the LH just for fun... still no joy..
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:17 am
by checkmate1996
Not getting power at 9 & 5 pins on the LH plug seems like path to lead down...
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:08 pm
by worf
checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:17 am
Not getting power at 9 & 5 pins on the LH plug seems like path to lead down...
Don’t have the troubleshooting guide memorized, but if it says you should have power and you don’t then follow that lead.
The troubleshooting guide has never let me down (but, it is possible to run off the edge of it; kinda like ancient mariners when the map of the world was just blank at the edges...)
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:34 pm
by checkmate1996
Ok: Here's a quick summary update to catch everyone up:
Condition: Strong Crank but no start
Troubleshooting Completed:
CE Panel:
- Changed out old relays with brand new Bosch relays for fuel injection, EZF, Fuel Pump and LH.
U11 / U12 show battery voltage
LH Module Testing
Test Point #1 - Turn ignition to off. Unplug LH Module Plug and Test Pins 9 and 5 (ground) for battery voltage. New relays in place.
RESULTS: No voltage.
Test Point #2. - Remove EZF relay and jumper 30/87.
RESULTS: No Voltage.
Test Point #3 - Reinstall EZF Relay and remove LH relay. Jumper relay 30/87.
RESULTS. BATTERY VOLTAGE.
Test Point #4 - All relays in place. Turn ignition to ON. Measure battery voltage at fuel injector.
RESULTS: Pulled fuel injector #1 plug.
RESULTS: N0 Voltage.
Test Point #5 - Measure Temp 2 sensor at pins 5 & 2 at LH plug.
RESULTS: 3.2. Within Spec. This was measured at the temp 2 sensor. RESULTS: 2.89 and 2.86. Within spec.
Test Point #6 - Ground pin 17 on LH plug to engage fuel pump.
RESULTS: Fuel pump kicks in.
Test Point #7: Swapped EZF and LH module with known good unit.
RESULTS: Nothing.
Test Point #8: Took existing EZF and LH module and installed in known working 928.
Results: Car started right up.
Battery:
- Battery is pulling 13.5+ volts.
Grounds:
- Engine and battery terminal grounds sparkling
Grounds on cam towers - sparkling
Ignition:
- Spark verified on each distributor bank.
Verified the belt on the distributor is in tact
Replaced CPS with Brand new Bosch module
Fuel:
- Changed out old fuel pump as old one was seized
Getting 46 psi at fuel rail on passenger side.
See fuel on plug upon pulling plug 1
===
Currently, I decided to remove the CE PANEL and do a complete inspection and clean.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:05 pm
by checkmate1996
Two pictures - one is the alarm 8 way flat I believe Chris was talking about in an earlier post. It looks like this was bridged from the factory. If so, did someone make the mistake of doing it twice up front? Also this connection was laying there and not going to anything. I am presuming it’s for an option I don’t have. Finally, I removed everything from the ce panel and cleaned all
841E5AF0-70BB-4E79-A4D6-F2E5158C7BEF.jpeg
contacts.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:11 am
by worf
checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:05 pm
Also this connection was laying there and not going to anything. I am presuming it’s for an option I don’t have.
If this was an '87+ I'd know. I don't see pre-'87s with any regularity.
Those two big-assed red wires look like they might be important. With any luck you might be able to find a 4-pin connector with the right wire colors in the diagrams. If it is an uninstalled option it'll have an M Code next to it.
Or if you can trace it back to a fuse panel connection you can look at the fuse panel page and trace it from there.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:08 am
by checkmate1996
...well it looks like i'm going to have to take a small detour. I noticed several of the injectors hoses leaking. I then went to push on the passenger fuel rail and fuel started spraying out.
So top end refresh here we come....
After pulling the fuel rail, the injector hoses just slid of the barb fitting. Uh oh!! that's not right. I looked at the diameter of the hose and it's 8mm. It's suppose to be 7mm. And there were no clamps. That's why it was leaking. The hose itself was actually fine.
So I'm half way down from pulling the top of the engine off and doing vacuum line, injectors, etc...
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:16 pm
by worf
I guess it’s a good thing it wasn’t starting.
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:22 pm
by checkmate1996
Dave- totally agree!
during the tear down - I found something else interesting.... both ignition rotors were 180 degrees off ...
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:13 am
by Landseer
Who had their hands on that engine last?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:11 pm
by checkmate1996
I’m not sure i should say...it was one of our former vendors. This is an easy mistake to make if you are rushing or not paying attention....
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:01 pm
by JBRob007
Brad use 7.5 mm X 50 mm hoses and 14 mm clamps on both ends - don't over tighten. The 50 mm length ensures the fuel hard lines line up perfectly. The 7.0 mm hoses work but they are a PITA to get on compared to 7.5 which still fit snugly... ask me how i know
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:22 pm
by checkmate1996
Thanks Joel! I am just going to order the kit from roger ...
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:18 am
by SeanR
checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:11 pm
I’m not sure i should say...it was one of our former vendors. This is an easy mistake to make if you are rushing or not paying attention....
This ought to be good. Curious minds want to know. Doesn't rhyme with Marl does it?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:00 am
by checkmate1996
This how I found the distributor
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:03 am
by checkmate1996
Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:38 pm
by JBRob007
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:17 pm
by checkmate1996
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:43 pm
by Adamant1971
Awesome
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:31 am
by linderpat
Good job! Need more pics though
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 11:47 am
by checkmate1996
Ask and you shall receive! :)
before picture(s)
after
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:52 pm
by linderpat
Wow
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:49 pm
by amdavid
Um, better!
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:47 pm
by worf
checkmate1996 wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 11:47 am
after
Dayum. Nice.
Did you replate that stuff? Or just clean? If the latter wadya use?
Re: New to me 85 Guards Red S2 Manual
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 5:08 pm
by checkmate1996
Thanks Dave for the complement and Ed. I used a company out of Indiana called industrial plating. Old school but very friendly. It’s all yellow zinc plated.