Open Road

Noticed temp gauge wasn't behaving normally on the drive home from work.

Reading higher than normal when stopped/idle, up to the 3/4 mark, but evened out midways while driving on the highway. The red light never came on.

Got home, checked the coolant hoses with an IR gun, 170 - 185 degrees. Gauge is sitting at 3/4. Shrug. Made sure the overheat light still illuminated with the key "on". Later this night, I took it around the corner, got the low coolant light.

By the time I got it home and checked the expansion tank it was EMPTY.

Again, no overheat light. In the past the low coolant light was sensitive to the level being low AT ALL.

Nothing immediately obvious, too late/dark to mess with it tonight.

Any guesses?

Hose, seal, cracked block, busted oil cooler in radiator.

Go to Autozone, Pepboys, etc., rent a cooling system pressure test kit.

Add distilled water.

Use test kit.

Find leak.

No guessing.

If during pressure test coolant is disappearing and not reappearing on floor, pull plugs, look in cylinders.

Also, look at oil level. Is it going up?

No guesses from me, just wasn't expecting to have time to diagnose it for awhile. "Who can call it first".Topped off the coolant with distilled water and moved it to swap out cars this morning.

Looks like Water pump.

Dripping off the front of the oil pan and I can hear it.

Fox_ wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:38 am Looks like Water pump.

Dripping off the front of the oil pan and I can hear it.

Check water bridge hoses before you dig in.

Rent the cooling system pressure tester from AutoZone and find the leak like Worf posted above. Better to know what problem you have than guessing at it.

Stepson wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:07 am Rent the cooling system pressure tester from AutoZone and find the leak like Worf posted above. Better to know what problem you have than guessing at it.

Thread should be read as follows:

"Coolant leak. What do you think it is while I wait to have time to diagnose it?"

Fox, if it is water pump, what time span and mileage were on it? Curious for sake of my own deferred maintenance.
Thanks.

Crumpler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:12 pm Fox, if it is water pump, what time span and mileage were on it? Curious for sake of my own deferred maintenance.
Thanks.

Timing belt was done ~11/15, I bought it 03/16.

Best guess is that's when water pump was last changed.

Mileage around 8-10k

Will work on it this weekend, probably.

That's pretty low mileage for a pump failure. Bummer.

On the other hand it could have been a lot worse.

Thanks Fox, sorry it gave out.

Hose going into the water bridge did weep under pressure test, but not enough to account for the steady stream dripping off the oil pan.

Tightening the clamp did not resolve the leak.

Same thing happened to me. I would advise getting one from Porsche. Not cheap but you won't have worries for another 25 years.

Edit, thought you were talking about replacing radiator hose...

Older style Laso is still available from Roger IINM.

Your 16 valve is non-interference, so you won't be bending valves. If you had a valve-bender, i would recommend a "Guardian" water pump from Perfex (Ed).
I've had one on my GTS for 3 years and I just put one on my GT.
I like the concept, and I like the protection that the Guardian can provide.

Stepson wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:19 pm Your 16 valve is non-interference, so you won't be bending valves. If you had a valve-bender, i would recommend a "Guardian" water pump from Perfex (Ed).

Who? Me? I've got the 5.0.

I was just going to put a plastic impeller lasso on it.

Sorry, I thought you had a 16 valve.

I'd still go with the Guardian for a 32 valve.

Stepson wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:50 pm Sorry, I thought you had a 16 valve.

Most 16v motors are valve benders. The exception is the US 4.5 and with enough carbon buildup that can be a valve bender too.

   

Shifted wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:08 am I looked at the Perfex website. It looks like they take old water pumps, remanufacture them and add an extra idler bearing and a shearing component. I couldn't find any pricing for it online. Do you know how much they cost?

Go find the ~10-year-old thread on TOS where Ed goes through the design. The purpose of the G pump was to design-out every known failure mode of the OE pump design.

It’s more that just “an extra idler bearing.”

   

   

Shifted wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:49 am So....does anyone know the price of the Perfex "EGDS" water pump? They don't publish it on their site

Last time I got one from Ed, about a year ago, it was $675 IIRC.

and I can't find it for sale through any of the usual 928 parts suppliers.

Because of reasons that can be found in the TOS thread covering the design and testing.

I’m not going to expound further in “print.” It’s another episode of “As Rennlist Turns.” You have to make up your own mind.

If you want to call me grumpy as a result or accuse me of treating you like a child then fine.

Is the water pump controversy worse than the "best oil" or the "best coolant"?

I bought the one I just installed in the GT late in 2020 and it was $450. More than a Laso and less than a Porsche supplied.

Stepson wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:43 pm I bought the one I just installed in the GT late in 2020 and it was $450. More than a Laso and less than a Porsche supplied.

I went back and looked at my last invoice: you’re right.

Fox_ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:37 am Is the water pump controversy worse than the "best oil" or the "best coolant"?

I think it’s just the eight more weeks of winter thing;)

So have you pulled it off yet Fox?
What kind was it, due tell.

Stepson wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:19 pm Older style Laso is still available from Roger IINM.

Your 16 valve is non-interference, so you won't be bending valves. If you had a valve-bender, i would recommend a "Guardian" water pump from Perfex (Ed).
I've had one on my GTS for 3 years and I just put one on my GT.
I like the concept, and I like the protection that the Guardian can provide.

You sound like a pillow commercial for waterpumps.

No affiliation. Just a satisfied customer trying to help others.

Fox,

Any update? We would like to know what you found and what you further plan of action is.

Stepson wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:22 pm Fox,

Any update? We would like to know what you found and what you further plan of action is.

Works better for me if I can order parts and do the whole job over a day or two.

Poor weather took this last weekend. Plan for now is do a full timing belt/water pump service.

Probably with a lasso pump.

I fully understand that. Get it back on the road ASAP

Stepson wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:19 pm ........... i would recommend a "Guardian" water pump from Perfex (Ed).
I've had one on my GTS for 3 years and I just put one on my GT.
I like the concept, and I like the protection that the Guardian can provide.

Not starting a debate. I like the concept too, similar to my Porkensioner.
Honest question: Do you carry around a spare 'puck' incase you need one when away from home (I take my car on long trips)?

just realized I hijacked Fox's Post.
Sorry.

hessank wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:28 am Honest question: Do you carry around a spare 'puck' incase you need one when away from home (I take my car on long trips)?

No. And what’s the point? If your non-Guardian pump seizes and the belt melts to it and you notice before bending your valves, do you carry around a spare water pump and belt? Or tools to do a belt service?

There have been three puck failures independent of any actual issues. Two for Bertrand one for Greg Brown. Two of the three used non-factory castings which Ed no longer does for pumps and Greg’s was a stroker.

No, I don't carry around an extra "puck", but the chances that I would perform an on-the-side-of-the-road timing belt/ water pump job are infinitesimally small.

I would use the opportunity that the WP gives me to drive the car somewhere safe, secure it, and have it transported to my house garage for repairs which would not include bent valves.

Here's a question:

I was gong to move the car out of storage, about a mile to work on it. Originally planned to do the work within a week or so, that didn't happen.

Now, whats the risk of moving the car with a crapped water pump bearing that's been sitting wet(?) for a month?

Fox_ wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:07 pm I was gong to move the car out of storage, about a mile to work on it... Now, whats the risk of moving the car with a crapped water pump bearing that's been sitting wet(?) for a month?

A mile drive? Minimal. You can turn the crank with a 27mm just to make sure it still turns. If it’s making bad noises when you start it then that means it wants to be towed.

worf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:45 am

hessank wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:28 am Honest question: Do you carry around a spare 'puck' incase you need one when away from home (I take my car on long trips)?

No. And what’s the point? If your non-Guardian pump seizes and the belt melts to it and you notice before bending your valves, do you carry around a spare water pump and belt? Or tools to do a belt service?

There have been three puck failures independent of any actual issues. Two for Bertrand one for Greg Brown. Two of the three used non-factory castings which Ed no longer does for pumps and Greg’s was a stroker.

Sorry dude but you misunderstood my reason for asking.
Nevertheless, I will be purchasing the Guardian for my next WP/TB install.
928 WPs are available locally throughout Canada and the US.
However, a replacement puck is only available at one Vendor in the entire Continent.

I WILL purchase a spare when I purchase my pump.

hessank wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:15 pm Sorry dude but you misunderstood my reason for asking.

I WILL purchase a spare when I purchase my pump.

Sorry dude, but I answered the question you asked. If you want a different answer then ask a different question.

Yes, having a spare coupler in inventory is a fine idea. Taking it with you on a trip makes no sense. And, in any case...

Murphy’s law of 928 parts is that whatever part you bring with you is not the one you will need. That’s why I always bring my spare LH with me.

What? Nobody recommended Solder Seal? I keed, I keed........ What's this water pump stuff you speak of anyway?

3.2 Targa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:55 pm What's this water pump stuff you speak of anyway?

Meh. Bored Air Heads comin’ over here lookin’ for trouble. Listen, we’re currently busy fighting amongst ourselves about hurt feelins’ and other bullshit and don’t have time to properly “greet” you, so come back another time but bring two more cylinders and better weight distribution.

worf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:20 pm

3.2 Targa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:55 pm What's this water pump stuff you speak of anyway?

Meh. Bored Air Heads comin’ over here lookin’ for trouble. Listen, we’re currently busy fighting amongst ourselves about hurt feelins’ and other bullshit and don’t have time to properly “greet” you, so come back another time but bring two more cylinders and better weight distribution.

Sorry, didn't mean to intrude on a family squabble. My cop friend tells me about the domestic squabbles. I should have known better.

I prefer to call it a lawn mower. Air cooled with a big fan on top. Usually spinning off track into the grass.

I'm a recovering 928 owner. I really love my old 928 and the new owner is keeping it up quite well. I enjoy seeing it at Sean's place from time to time.

There is never a good time to venture into the 928 section. Full drama all the time. I hang with the DFW 928 crowd occasionally and we have our share of troublemakers.

I'll venture back to the Dive Bar for another round.

3.2 Targa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:42 pm I prefer to call it a lawn mower. Air cooled with a big fan on top. Usually spinning off track into the grass.

Oh you’re right. Before we regress to school yard behavior we should meet and agree to the precise terminology with which we will cast our aspersions.

I always preferred “ass-dragger” myself.

Repop part?

Rebuilt metal impeller pump.

Didn't expect to find that, but makes sense as to why it failed so quickly.

Just happy it didn't take the engine block out with it.