[N_Jay]

So I keep seeing AI generated pictures of the (supposed) 2026 Karmann Ghia.

We see a few very close models between Audi and VW, and a little platform sharing between Porsche and the others.

So, with the cancelation of the the Boxster/Cayman platform, it would seem to be a perfect time to pull the 914 business plan out, stir in a helping of the renewed "Scout" thibkibg, and create a New Karmann Ghia.
Pick up the platform, put in a VW/Adui 4 banger, keep the suspension so tuners can borrow Porsche parts, and have fun.

Anyone have a spare $50 Million to start our KickStarter?

[fpena944]

So I keep seeing AI generated pictures of the (supposed) 2026 Karmann Ghia.

We see a few very close models between Audi and VW, and a little platform sharing between Porsche and the others.

So, with the cancelation of the the Boxster/Cayman platform, it would seem to be a perfect time to pull the 914 business plan out, stir in a helping of the renewed "Scout" thibkibg, and create a New Karmann Ghia.
Pick up the platform, put in a VW/Adui 4 banger, keep the suspension so tuners can borrow Porsche parts, and have fun.

Anyone have a spare $50 Million to start our KickStarter?

I've been hearing of a next gen KG for years though, is this one really real? Plus with all of the money they've burned through I doubt $50 million would even get the clay model built.

[worf]

... with the cancelation of the the Boxster/Cayman platform ...

You are confused.

[N_Jay]

... with the cancelation of the the Boxster/Cayman platform ...

You are confused.

Maybe.
Source?

[worf]

Maybe.
Source?

Writing that the Boxster/Cayman has been cancelled is like writing that the 911 has been cancelled because the 991 platform aged out when the 992 debuted.

The current Boxster/Cayman, sharing the 991 platform, has now aged out due, primarily, to EU cybersecurity regulations and secondarily due to "Lambda=1" regulations. I think we can agree that if PAG had a time machine that they would go back in time to 2017 and design the 992 platform to be shared with new Caysters and slice off two cylinders from their Lambda=1 flat six. But, they don't and now have to live with their monumental fuckup in playing along with the 2035 no-ICE BEV EU (etc.) bullshit.

BEV Boxsters and Caymans have been testing in the wild for two years. Yes, they may be cancelled due to the bankruptcy of the selected battery supplier. Or they may be delayed. Or the may still debut next year - as is still what PAG's marketing trolls write.

There's also a leaked PAG slide deck all over the internet that shows a '28-30' timeline for ICE and BEV Caysters on new platforms.

So... while there is a hiatus for Caysters, the current strategy for PAG has them back in a couple of years.

That may not happen. They may suck. They will certainly be very expensive.

But, they are not "cancelled."

[N_Jay]

Maybe.
Source?

Writing that the Boxster/Cayman has been cancelled is like writing that the 911 has been cancelled because the 991 platform aged out when the 992 debuted.

The current Boxster/Cayman, sharing the 991 platform, has now aged out due, primarily, to EU cybersecurity regulations and secondarily due to "Lambda=1" regulations. I think we can agree that if PAG had a time machine that they would go back in time to 2017 and design the 992 platform to be shared with new Caysters and slice off two cylinders from their Lambda=1 flat six. But, they don't and now have to live with their monumental fuckup in playing along with the 2035 no-ICE BEV EU (etc.) bullshit.

BEV Boxsters and Caymans have been testing in the wild for two years. Yes, they may be cancelled due to the bankruptcy of the selected battery supplier. Or they may be delayed. Or the may still debut next year - as is still what PAG's marketing trolls write.

There's also a leaked PAG slide deck all over the internet that shows a '28-30' timeline for ICE and BEV Caysters on new platforms.

So... while there is a hiatus for Caysters, the current strategy for PAG has them back in a couple of years.

That may not happen. They may suck. They will certainly be very expensive.

But, they are not "cancelled."

OK, the normally anticipated year over year refresh/platform evolution process has a hole in it.

Since Porsche seems to always predict the early demise of their low-end models (912/914/924 and now Boxster/Cayman, it seems to be a shame not to bring back a historic name to fill a lower tier sports car niche.

[worf]

Since Porsche seems to always predict the early demise of their low-end models (912/914/924 and now Boxster/Cayman, it seems to be a shame not to bring back a historic name to fill a lower tier sports car niche.

That's what they did when they trotted out "718" for "981.2" Caysters. Or, at least PAG claimed 718 was a historic name.

I will buy you a $200 (**) dinner if they revive 912/914/924 as a low-end(*) model or 928 as a range topper.

* Low-end in 2030 will probably have a base price of $110k for a base base model. '26 992.2 Base starts at $132k no options. I expect the 992 successor (MY'29 IMO) to start at $160k.

** Given the inflation I anticipate, that'll be a BigMac with Fries.

[N_Jay]

Since Porsche seems to always predict the early demise of their low-end models (912/914/924 and now Boxster/Cayman, it seems to be a shame not to bring back a historic name to fill a lower tier sports car niche.

That's what they did when they trotted out "718" for "981.2" Caysters. Or, at least PAG claimed 718 was a historic name.

I will buy you a $200 (**) dinner if they revive 912/914/924 as a low-end(*) model or 928 as a range topper.

* Low-end in 2030 will probably have a base price of $110k for a base base model. '26 992.2 Base starts at $132k no options. I expect the 992 successor (MY'29 IMO) to start at $160k.

** Given the inflation I anticipate, that'll be a BigMac with Fries.

The 718 seems to be a 1/2 hearted try.

My though was a high(er) end VW no so much a low end Porsche.

I always though they should have released a "928-2" on the Pana platform, slightly shortened, with 2 doors, and some retro 928 styling..

[fpena944]

Hard to tell whether it's bad decisions at the management level or their forced compliance to EU rules, but they sure are doing a great job at making short-sighted choices.

Take their best seller (Macan) and ONLY go electric with it?!?

And then take a critically acclaimed platform (718) known for agility and handing and transform it into a heavy EV?!?

Since there are 73 flavors of 911, why not add an EV flavor to the existing ICE lineup? That would have been the right choice but now they're scrambling to figure it all out while letting a competitor take the Macan business away from them until the replacement is released.

Let's see how the new CEO does. I do believe they need to do something big like they did the last couple of times the company was on the verge of failure.

[worf]

I always though they should have released a "928-2" on the Pana platform, slightly shortened, with 2 doors, and some retro 928 styling..

Nah. There'd be essentially no difference in a market segmentation context from a modern 991/992 911 Turbo.

There would be no place to put it. Make it less expensive and it cannibalizes 911 sales. Make it more expensive and less performant than a Turbo then no one buys it. Make it more expensive and more performant than a Turbo and that's square into Ferrari and Lamborghini territory and no one buys it.

I have a 991 Turbo. It does exactly what a modern 928 would do except with the engine on the other end.

Indeed the 992s are all very 928-like in functional terms even the Base models. (I've driven them on street and on track.)

The 718 was the light sports car. The 992s are heavy Grand Turing cars. IIRC The 992 GTS is pushing 3700 pounds.

[worf]

Hard to tell whether it's bad decisions at the management level or their forced compliance to EU rules, but they sure are doing a great job at making short-sighted choices.

It's both. The October demise of Caysters on the 991 platform was due to EU rules (see my post above.)

Same for for the ICE Macan except for US (AFAIK.)

The lack of a follow-on, based upon the 992 platform, which arguably should have happened for MY'21 (covid notwithstanding) is entirely due to VAG/PAG management overdosing on the "kill all ICE" agenda kool-aid.

The original timeline (IIRC) for the BEV Cayster was MY'22/23. But that shit the bed due to VAG BEV platform software pooch screwing circa 2019. Not to mention that the Taycan software was dog shit. Then two-ish years ago IIRC the supplier for the high-tech batteries for the BEV Caysters starting their own pooch screwing and then went belly up.

The recent about face for PAG is the result of the huge write-offs for Taycans and EV Macans that no one is buying.

Here's a thread with the PAG strategy slides describing models that will hopefully - they think - keep them solvent and somewhat independent:

https://www.718forum.com/threads/porsch ... yman.35416

[N_Jay]

Maybe they need a reminder that the car they didn't want to build or sell (924) that saved there ass.

[Fox_]

New Porsches are too expensive, 992 turbo starting at $270,000.. Base carrera $132,000

....or maybe I'm just too poor.

[N_Jay]

New Porsches are too expensive, 992 turbo starting at $270,000.. Base carrera $132,000

....or maybe I'm just too poor.

Both.

Have not bought a new one and don't plan on it, but they need to make sure even secondhand cars are affordable for enthusiasts.

[worf]

Have not bought a new one and don't plan on it, but they need to make sure even secondhand cars are affordable for enthusiasts.

With the demise of the 718 and the huge price bump for MY'26 992s - intended to allow PAG to capture ADM revenue rather than U.S. dealers - the used domestic Porsche market is a sellers market.

Based upon what I see in the market, I could sell my wife's manual 991S for what I paid for it in 2018 but with, now, double the mileage.

But, inflation will catch up with this price bump in 3-ish years.

[fpena944]

Have not bought a new one and don't plan on it, but they need to make sure even secondhand cars are affordable for enthusiasts.

With the demise of the 718 and the huge price bump for MY'26 992s - intended to allow PAG to capture ADM revenue rather than U.S. dealers - the used domestic Porsche market is a sellers market.

Based upon what I see in the market, I could sell my wife's manual 991S for what I paid for it in 2018 but with, now, double the mileage.

But, inflation will catch up with this price bump in 3-ish years.

Interestingly I'm starting to see 2019+ Cayennes normalize in price so this likely doesn't apply to what used to be their best seller before the Macan.

Good timing too as our CTT will need replacing soon with 210k miles on it!

[worf]

Interestingly I'm starting to see 2019+ Cayennes normalize in price so this likely doesn't apply to what used to be their best seller before the Macan.

I haven't paid attention to Pepper Prices, so, I don't know if they got a significant price bump in the last year or three.

The Porsche truck(*) market is vastly different from the Porsche sports car market. ADM is still required from many dealers for a 992 and even on remaining on-lot 718s. If it's a manual 718, bring lube.

I would expect the Porsche ICE truck market to be "normal" simply due to production volume and the other dynamics in those segments. I'd expect to be able to order a new one at 5% (min) off MSRP or up to 15% off on-lot ICE trucks.

But, they will practically give you any Taycan or Mecan EV on lot or ~15%+ (WAG) off an ordered EV. Betcha some dealers would let you order an EV at a few bucks over their cost. Why? Cause either way they are going to get one. If they've been assigned an EV allocation they are going(**) to get an EV. Better to have it sold even if no profit rather than another albatross on the lot with carry cost.

* A truck - in my book - is anything with four doors.

** Normally there is a vibrant allocation trading market between Porsche dealers e.g. "Hey? I'll trade you three Macan GTS allocations for a GT3RS allocation." But, EV allocations are dog shit. No one wants them e.g. "Hey? I'll trade you an allocation for a Taycan <click> <dial tone>."

[wsh]

Interestingly I'm starting to see 2019+ Cayennes normalize in price so this likely doesn't apply to what used to be their best seller before the Macan.

I haven't paid attention to Pepper Prices, so, I don't know if they got a significant price bump in the last year or three.

The Porsche truck(*) market is vastly different from the Porsche sports car market. ADM is still required from many dealers for a 992 and even on remaining on-lot 718s. If it's a manual 718, bring lube.

I would expect the Porsche ICE truck market to be "normal" simply due to production volume and the other dynamics in those segments. I'd expect to be able to order a new one at 5% (min) off MSRP or up to 15% off on-lot ICE trucks.

But, they will practically give you any Taycan or Mecan EV on lot or ~15%+ (WAG) off an ordered EV. Betcha some dealers would let you order an EV at a few bucks over their cost. Why? Cause either way they are going to get one. If they've been assigned an EV allocation they are going(**) to get an EV. Better to have it sold even if no profit rather than another albatross on the lot with carry cost.

* A truck - in my book - is anything with four doors.

** Normally there is a vibrant allocation trading market between Porsche dealers e.g. "Hey? I'll trade you three Macan GTS allocations for a GT3RS allocation." But, EV allocations are dog shit. No one wants them e.g. "Hey? I'll trade you an allocation for a Taycan <click> <dial tone>."

Agree with all of the above
The highlighted areas should have a capitalist (or just an average business manager) saying "Maybe we should make MORE of what the consumer wants--MT, hi-po ICE sports cars--and fewer/no EV's".

You can say it's the EU regulations (true) but also Porsche (and other manufacturers to a lesser degree..) thought they were strategic smart guys and could see the future and it is EV !!! When actually Elon created a new but finite market---and one that is not applicable to all segments of transportation. Whatever happened to giving the consumer a choice and letting them decide ? Porsche rolled the dice and failed, miserably.

[fpena944]

Interestingly I'm starting to see 2019+ Cayennes normalize in price so this likely doesn't apply to what used to be their best seller before the Macan.

I haven't paid attention to Pepper Prices, so, I don't know if they got a significant price bump in the last year or three.

The Porsche truck(*) market is vastly different from the Porsche sports car market. ADM is still required from many dealers for a 992 and even on remaining on-lot 718s. If it's a manual 718, bring lube.

I would expect the Porsche ICE truck market to be "normal" simply due to production volume and the other dynamics in those segments. I'd expect to be able to order a new one at 5% (min) off MSRP or up to 15% off on-lot ICE trucks.

But, they will practically give you any Taycan or Mecan EV on lot or ~15%+ (WAG) off an ordered EV. Betcha some dealers would let you order an EV at a few bucks over their cost. Why? Cause either way they are going to get one. If they've been assigned an EV allocation they are going(**) to get an EV. Better to have it sold even if no profit rather than another albatross on the lot with carry cost.

* A truck - in my book - is anything with four doors.

** Normally there is a vibrant allocation trading market between Porsche dealers e.g. "Hey? I'll trade you three Macan GTS allocations for a GT3RS allocation." But, EV allocations are dog shit. No one wants them e.g. "Hey? I'll trade you an allocation for a Taycan <click> <dial tone>."

Agree with all of the above
The highlighted areas should have a capitalist (or just an average business manager) saying "Maybe we should make MORE of what the consumer wants--MT, hi-po ICE sports cars--and fewer/no EV's".

You can say it's the EU regulations (true) but also Porsche (and other manufacturers to a lesser degree..) thought they were strategic smart guys and could see the future and it is EV !!! When actually Elon created a new but finite market---and one that is not applicable to all segments of transportation. Whatever happened to giving the consumer a choice and letting them decide ? Porsche rolled the dice and failed, miserably.

But historically Porsche has often ignored what the customer wants and tries to force change.

Think about how they tried to kill the 911 to crown the 928 as the top dog, how they tried to remove the manual option from the GT3, or now with EVs knowing that what differentiates Porsche from all other makes are not tangible performance figures but instead the feel which includes sound, vibration, steering, agility, etc.

They really should have known better. Sure introduce EVs to supplement the lineup but don't replace what made you, you. Think about it - did they kill the 911 because the Cayenne came out? Nope, so why kill the Macan and 718?!?

[worf]

Nope, so why kill the Macan and 718?!?

From where I sit...

The plan, back in 2018-ish wasn't to kill the ICE Macan and the ICE 718. It was to replace them with BEV versions. How and exactly why they made this decision is something we can only speculate(*) about. Now, it is clear to the PAG c-suite that they royally fucked up. But, it's going to take them a couple of years to get a new ICE Macan and ICE 718 to market. Why? Because that's the automotive product timeline. The current ICE Macan and ICE 718 aren't compliant with EU regs (and as far as I know US regs come '27/'28.) To make them compliant requires 1) Lambda=1 engines (emissions regs) and 2) *all* new electronics and electrical architecture (cybersecurity regs.) Now, they have all that stuff within the VAG context, but they still have to do the product design and testing.

* I assume that, somehow, the PAG c-suite was convinced that the EU 2035 mandated ICE death was irreversible, that they *had* to get a BEV Macan on offer and that a BEV 718 would be both a marketing and engineering testbed for what to do with the 911 on 12/31/2034.

But, like most "hardware" companies they can't "do" software. That's what screwed the Macan timeline. Why? Because PAG decided to base the EV Macan's architecture on the VAG electric (which is really software) corporate platform. And that effort got fucked up by several years.

They made the decision to treat 2035 as a done deal, and then baked no "slip margin" into the schedule. Because cars are hardware right? Yeah... nope. Not anymore. Any software company starting out on a big new-code-from-the-ground-up platform is going to bake appropriate margin into schedules.

When the software schedule slipped by two years they were fucked. But, they knew that in 2020/2021. So why didn't they mitigate risk by getting started then on a 3rd-gen ICE Macan that could live past the EU's '25 regs?

[lupo.sk]

They didn’t kill the 911 BECAUSE the cayenne came out.

[worf]

They didn’t kill the 911 BECAUSE the cayenne came out.

This -^

[ny991]

How's this one for you.? They turned them all off!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eared.html

[worf]

Nice...