8 cylinder front engine iconic vehicle
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By worf
#167289
WyattsRide wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:35 am Before setting the cam shafts, I think I need to put the WP on (with the pointer) and the dampener, to set the crank at 45. Is this correct?
Yes. Crank must be at 45° BTDC.

Once the cams, seals, back plates, and gears are installed the very next thing to do is to string the timing belt. So, I get all the 'stuff' installed on the front before doing cams.

Note that the cam caps on the intake side are installed 'upside down' - see WSM pages.

WyattsRide wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:35 am Then using the 9226/4 and 9226/3 gauges, to make sure the cam lobes are in the correct position.
Yup. Pay attention to the WSM. You use those on different cylinders on each side. 1 and 6 IIRC.

This is also a very good time to index the exhaust cams with the tools shown in the WSM. Once you've done that you have a zero reference for use of the PK'32vR if you want to make small changes later.

WyattsRide wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:35 am What can I do about the Firewall foil? Should I just clean it? Or is there something better that I can put over top? Any experience on doing this?
If you attempt to clean it you'll likely end up with most of it on the floor. Either don't mess with it or go down the rabbit hole. DEI makes various products you can use on the insulation to replace the reflective material. Unless you want to remove *everything* from the firewall you'll want a thin flexible material that you can "work in" with the firewall accouterments loose.

Think long and hard about how you'll go about it, think about what can go wrong. Once you've made up your mind, measure thrice. And best have twice the material you think you'll need.

A lot of it depends upon what you want it to look like when your done. Half-assed or factory-looking.

WyattsRide wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:35 am What about the Heat shields near the Motor Mounts? They have an insulation on them that is deteriorating. Something new for this? Any ideas?
Bertrand covered you on that.

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By WyattsRide
#167393
Thanks Dave!

I'm still looking for a Cylinder 5 & 6 intake manifold. I can't get any word back from Mark at 928 International.
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By worf
#167897
WyattsRide wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:12 am I'm still looking for a Cylinder 5 & 6 intake manifold. I can't get any word back from Mark at 928 International.
Did you call?
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By WyattsRide
#167966
worf wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:42 pm
WyattsRide wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:12 am I'm still looking for a Cylinder 5 & 6 intake manifold. I can't get any word back from Mark at 928 International.
Did you call?
I've been out of the office so I don't know if Mark at 928 Int ever got back to me. I did call him several times.

In the mean time I put the word out and in a day I got an intake from a (Jim R) Buckeye Landshark guy in Ohio and it's already here.
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By WyattsRide
#167967
Mrmerlin wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:05 am FWIW to get the crank at 45 DTDC put the keyway at 3 O clock,
no need for a damper
(This is while facing the engine.)
put it to 4 O clock for TDC
This is great to know Stan. Thanks!
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By worf
#170403
WyattsRide wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:06 pm What sealant do you use on bolts that penetrate the water jacket?
Be very specific about the locations to which you refer.

Which locations worry you?

And do you mean to refer to "sealant" or "anti-seize"/"anti-corrosive"?
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By WyattsRide
#170465
worf wrote:
WyattsRide wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:06 pm What sealant do you use on bolts that penetrate the water jacket?
Be very specific about the locations to which you refer.

Which locations worry you?

And do you mean to refer to "sealant" or "anti-seize"/"anti-corrosive"?
OK. The one that I'm on right now is the bolt for the upper tensioner roller that goes through the water pump.
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By worf
#170535
WyattsRide wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:52 am The one that I'm on right now is the bolt for the upper tensioner roller that goes through the water pump.
Ok.

For that one (and the tension bolt) I use Loctite 565. Seems to do the trick. (Note, always put some of the goop on the bolt hole threads as well as the bolt threads. I toothpick works just fine for that.)

For the tensioner, get everything ready to go, goop-up the bolt, install everything, and set your belt tension. Then wait for a day before you fill the tensioner with oil. Once it sets up you can make small tension adjustments without it leaking.

For water pump bolts: a skin of copper anti-seize (and lower torque to 8 to 9 N-m, rather than 8-10 N-m.)
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By worf
#170537
Oh, one more thing:

Check all your tensioner bolt holes in the block. One is a "through hole", one of them is deep, and the top two holes *may* be deep enough that they penetrate into an oil return for the cylinder block.

Use a LED snake light, mirror, whatever you need to check the holes. If you don't see "solid metal" in the hole then you'll need to seal those tensioner bolts too. The 565 works there too.
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By WyattsRide
#170591
worf wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:25 pm
WyattsRide wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:52 am The one that I'm on right now is the bolt for the upper tensioner roller that goes through the water pump.
Ok.

For that one (and the tension bolt) I use Loctite 565. Seems to do the trick. (Note, always put some of the goop on the bolt hole threads as well as the bolt threads. I toothpick works just fine for that.)

For the tensioner, get everything ready to go, goop-up the bolt, install everything, and set your belt tension. Then wait for a day before you fill the tensioner with oil. Once it sets up you can make small tension adjustments without it leaking.

For water pump bolts: a skin of copper anti-seize (and lower torque to 8 to 9 N-m, rather than 8-10 N-m.)
worf wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:28 pm Oh, one more thing:

Check all your tensioner bolt holes in the block. One is a "through hole", one of them is deep, and the top two holes *may* be deep enough that they penetrate into an oil return for the cylinder block.

Use a LED snake light, mirror, whatever you need to check the holes. If you don't see "solid metal" in the hole then you'll need to seal those tensioner bolts too. The 565 works there too.
Perfect! Thanks Dave!
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By WyattsRide
#170881
I'm not ready to put on the cam covers yet. But, I want to make sure that I understand the sealing procedures for when I do.
Also, I want to make sure I have the oil separator in the correct spot. I somehow can't find the pictures I took when disassembling the covers for Powder Coating.
If I'm looking at PET correctly, then the separator should be on the other side of where I have it now. Closest to the firewall. Correct?
Right Side Cam Cover (top)
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Right Side Cam Cover (bottom) With sealing instructions that I've gathered from various threads and write ups. Is this correct?
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I'm still gathering up the sealants from various sources.
Loctite 565
Drei Bond 1209
Hondabond 4
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By worf
#170988
WyattsRide wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:47 am I'm not ready to put on the cam covers yet. But, I want to make sure that I understand the sealing procedures for when I do.

With sealing instructions that I've gathered from various threads and write ups. Is this correct?
You don't need two different sealants for the cam covers. Pick one. Either Drei Bond, Yama/Honda Bond, even Permatex Gray will work fine. When I build an engine on the stand I put sealant on both sides of all 5 gaskets for each cover. (And then spend 10 to 15 minutes cleaning off the 'squeeze.')

Since you are building this on a stand the job is a lot easier with less chance for the gasket to roll out of the groove or jump out of the corners. Nevertheless, you'll want to do a lot of inspection of the end of the cam covers - through the little 'crack' between the cam bridges and cover - to make sure the gasket hasn't rolled.

One easy trick is to use a length of brass safety wire, loop it through a corner bolt hole around the corner of the gasket and twist it off like a bread tie. Do that for all corners. Once you've got all the other bolts started, snip the 'bread tie' and pull it out.

That method will work as long as the gasket hasn't taken on a "twist."

Make sure you use a torque wrench for the CC bolts.

WyattsRide wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:47 am Also, I want to make sure I have the oil separator in the correct spot. I somehow can't find the pictures I took when disassembling the covers for Powder Coating.
If I'm looking at PET correctly, then the separator should be on the other side of where I have it now. Closest to the firewall. Correct?
The... ah... snorkel that pumps oil directly from the head into your intake system is located on the passenger side, firewall end.

Putting that back in where you found it is not the best practice anymore.

Better to get Greg's baffle plates. Or buy potdAwg's knock-offs I 'spose.
By MFranke
#171324
Fwiw, on the cam cover gaskets (spark plug hole and the cover gasket) I've had success installing dry. No leakage. I think the key is to ensure the surfaces are clean and flat. Also taking care not to roll the cover gasket. I believe there is an instruction out there to put sealant around the lower corners, so maybe that is the more conservative approach.
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By worf
#171362
MFranke wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:56 pm Fwiw, on the cam cover gaskets (spark plug hole and the cover gasket) I've had success installing dry.
Plug gaskets are thinner now. Without sealant they'll leak immediately. Even if NOS plug gaskets, the rubber gets hard in 10-ish years and then leaks. With sealant, it takes a lot longer for the gaskets to leak.
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By MFranke
#171489
Plug gaskets are thinner now. Without sealant they'll leak immediately. Even if NOS plug gaskets, the rubber gets hard in 10-ish years and then leaks. With sealant, it takes a lot longer for the gaskets to leak.[/quote]

Good to know, thanks!
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By WyattsRide
#174499
image.png
The workshop calls for Loctite 574 for the camshaft ends - 27 in the PET illustration (Not sure, cam end bridges?) Can I use a Permatex product instead? I just want to get this at any auto parts store. I can't find most special Loctite products in the stores.
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By worf
#174503
WyattsRide wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:39 pm The workshop calls for Loctite 574 for the camshaft ends - 27 in the PET illustration (Not sure, cam end bridges?)
Yup. All four cam bridges.

WyattsRide wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:39 pm Can I use a Permatex product instead?
No. Not really. Oh, there’s probably a Permatex product that does the same thing, but I don’t know what it is and for sure you won’t find it at AutoBone or Poop Boys.

WyattsRide wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:39 pm I can't find most special Loctite products in the stores.
https://www.mcmaster.com/loktite-574/

48 hours…
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By WyattsRide
#174598
Ok, Loctite 574 ordered. :kickbutt:

Now onto another subject. Cam Chain Tensioner pads.

WTF? Do I have the right pads for my tensioners?
1. The fixed (flat) pad doesn't seem like it can be replaced. It's riveted on.
2. After removing the spring loaded curved pad from the base by removing the two screws, the new one "could" slide on except for the shaft in the center. The old pad has a recess for the center shaft.

FUCK! Can't anything be simple on these cars?!!? Now what?

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Sorry for the blurry pics. I tried a different phone camera and I'm not used to it yet.
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By worf
#174624
You are not going to like the answer.

The replacement pads for your S3 chain tensioners are NLA. (Last time I checked. You should double-check.)

Your replacement pads are for S4/GT/GTS chain tensioners.

You will need to get a used/new L+R chain tensioner set for ‘87+ and the L+R oil supply tubes. And maybe S4 banjo bolts.

Or, if the existing pads are still pliable and not too worn…

(I write the last only because I’m sure your heads were off once before and maybe the pads were replaced then.)
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By WyattsRide
#174655
worf wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:22 pm You are not going to like the answer.

The replacement pads for your S3 chain tensioners are NLA. (Last time I checked. You should double-check.)

Your replacement pads are for S4/GT/GTS chain tensioners.

You will need to get a used/new L+R chain tensioner set for ‘87+ and the L+R oil supply tubes. And maybe S4 banjo bolts.

Or, if the existing pads are still pliable and not too worn…

(I write the last only because I’m sure your heads were off once before and maybe the pads were replaced then.)
They aren't worn much at all. See Ed's response. I'll get better pics.
linderpat wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:29 pm I recall that those pads looked pretty good.
You're right Ed. Plus the pads (at least the spring load black pad) does not seem brittle or barely grooved. The fixed pad don't have much wear either.

Hope Roger takes the new ones back. That's about $250 I could use else where for this car! :banghead:
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By worf
#174676
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:59 pm They aren't worn much at all. See Ed's response. I'll get better pics.
Do that (pics.)

Also, test them for pliability against the new ones. The new ones should flex just bit and be a tad "soft" with a finger-nail. If the old pads have similar characteristics and have less than 1/3 wear then I'd use them rather than upgrading to S4 parts.

Note that the wear in the pad is proportional (IMO) to cold starts and mileage while the 'brittleness' is due to passage of time. I've reused worn(-ish) but pliable pads and have thrown away unworn but seemingly brittle pads.

This thread though does remind me that the next time I have some old pads I should test the to destruction.

WyattsRide wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:59 pm Hope Roger takes the new ones back. That's about $250 I could use else where for this car! :banghead:
If Roger won't, let me know. As long as the kits are as-new, with all parts, we can work out something.

On that note: One concern I have about reusing your pads is that you've already removed (at least one set of) the screws. Those screws "thread" the bore in the pads when you initially install them. So, they will not be as tight the second time you screw them in.

If it were me I'd investigate some means of making them "tighter." I'm not sure if loctite red/blue works on the pad material. I'd look for a thread locker that's designed for a metal/plastic interface. And I'm not sure if such a thing exists, but I wouldn't bet against it.
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By WyattsRide
#174693
worf wrote:
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:59 pm They aren't worn much at all. See Ed's response. I'll get better pics.
Do that (pics.)

Also, test them for pliability against the new ones. The new ones should flex just bit and be a tad "soft" with a finger-nail. If the old pads have similar characteristics and have less than 1/3 wear then I'd use them rather than upgrading to S4 parts.

Note that the wear in the pad is proportional (IMO) to cold starts and mileage while the 'brittleness' is due to passage of time. I've reused worn(-ish) but pliable pads and have thrown away unworn but seemingly brittle pads.

This thread though does remind me that the next time I have some old pads I should test the to destruction.
The old pad do feel pliable and not hard at all. After removing the screws from the back, they had to be wedged away from the base with a thin putty knife to separate. The pads were slightly bending because the center post of the base was still holding it in place. I only took the left side tensioner pad off. I wonder if like Gorilla glue in the screw holes will hold it tight when reusing the screws. They did seem to grip in good though when I reassembled after realizing the the new pads didn't work.

worf wrote:
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:59 pm Hope Roger takes the new ones back. That's about $250 I could use else where for this car! :banghead:
If Roger won't, let me know. As long as the kits are as-new, with all parts, we can work out something.

On that note: One concern I have about reusing your pads is that you've already removed (at least one set of) the screws. Those screws "thread" the bore in the pads when you initially install them. So, they will not be as tight the second time you screw them in.

If it were me I'd investigate some means of making them "tighter." I'm not sure if loctite red/blue works on the pad material. I'd look for a thread locker that's designed for a metal/plastic interface. And I'm not sure if such a thing exists, but I wouldn't bet against it.
Roger is taking the new ones back as I figured he would. Roger is great about that.
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By worf
#174695
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:05 pm I wonder if like Gorilla glue in the screw holes will hold it tight when reusing the screws. They did seem to grip in good though when I reassembled after realizing the the new pads didn't work.
You are warrantying the engine work. Research, test as you see fit.

Gorilla glue is basically Super Glue, yes? I’ve actually used super glue to ‘repair’ threads in plastic. I’m not sure it works as a thread locker.
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By worf
#174697
So… I got curious…

It looks like thread lockers for plastic to metal are primarily Cyanoacrylat.

Which is the ‘active’ ingredient in Super Glue it would appear.

Loctite 425 is Cyanoacrylate-based and is for plastic to metal thread locking.

But, Gorilla/Monkey/Super glue maybe the same stuff. And a lot cheaper.

These glues come in lots of viscosities. It’s not immediately clear how viscosity factors into applications.
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By WyattsRide
#174745
worf wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:29 pm
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:05 pm I wonder if like Gorilla glue in the screw holes will hold it tight when reusing the screws. They did seem to grip in good though when I reassembled after realizing the the new pads didn't work.
You are warrantying the engine work. Research, test as you see fit.

Gorilla glue is basically Super Glue, yes? I’ve actually used super glue to ‘repair’ threads in plastic. I’m not sure it works as a thread locker.
worf wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:54 pm So… I got curious…

It looks like thread lockers for plastic to metal are primarily Cyanoacrylat.

Which is the ‘active’ ingredient in Super Glue it would appear.

Loctite 425 is Cyanoacrylate-based and is for plastic to metal thread locking.

But, Gorilla/Monkey/Super glue maybe the same stuff. And a lot cheaper.

These glues come in lots of viscosities. It’s not immediately clear how viscosity factors into applications.
My initial thought when mentioning Gorilla/Super Glue was filling the holes and letting the glue set up to almost dry. Like a wood filler. Then letting the screws re-tap new threads and the glue then curing completely. The original screw/pad combination did not use any thread locker.

BTW, I do not warranty my work to myself. I signed a waiver long ago, with the understanding that any work done by me is not warrantied and no legal action can be taken against me if the work is not completed on time or correctly.
However, I have not signed any waiver like this if Ed Rice helped in any way though. Ed warranties his work. :rtfm:
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By linderpat
#174753
WyattsRide wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:19 am

........
However, I have not signed any waiver like this if Ed Rice helped in any way though. Ed warranties his work. :rtfm:
You're a funny guy Rick :lol2:

BTW, I would not use Gorilla Glue for this application unless I tested it first to see how well it holds up to 3 things - 1. Heat; 2. oil bath; and 3. stress in shear and vibration. I do know that J-B Weld generally holds up well under these conditions. I don't know that I would trust GG or its equivalent without knowing more. GG does make an epoxy, so maybe that would work?

This one is a sphincter clenching moment for me - if that tensioner fails, you're going back in and doing it all over again, including buying new valves, etc.
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By linderpat
#174754
Also, if the screw is reasonably tight, then maybe it is fine as is - the reason being that the pad is held tight along one plane - say the Y axis. If the screw is in that plane, then it will remain tight from both the top side (pressure from the chain) and the underside (from the mounting surface).
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By WyattsRide
#174763
linderpat wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:22 am
WyattsRide wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:19 am

........
However, I have not signed any waiver like this if Ed Rice helped in any way though. Ed warranties his work. :rtfm:
You're a funny guy Rick :lol2:

BTW, I would not use Gorilla Glue for this application unless I tested it first to see how well it holds up to 3 things - 1. Heat; 2. oil bath; and 3. stress in shear and vibration. I do know that J-B Weld generally holds up well under these conditions. I don't know that I would trust GG or its equivalent without knowing more. GG does make an epoxy, so maybe that would work?

This one is a sphincter clenching moment for me - if that tensioner fails, you're going back in and doing it all over again, including buying new valves, etc.
linderpat wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:26 am Also, if the screw is reasonably tight, then maybe it is fine as is - the reason being that the pad is held tight along one plane - say the Y axis. If the screw is in that plane, then it will remain tight from both the top side (pressure from the chain) and the underside (from the mounting surface).
All duly noted. Thanks!!!
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By WyattsRide
#175432
Did a little more this weekend when I had some time.

Here are my S3 tensioner pads.

Left Tensioner. After cleaning the screw holes out to remove any oils. I then mixed up a tiny bit of JB Weld Epoxy for plastics and put it in the holes. Then reattached the pad to the base with the screws. I probably didn't need to do this because the screws felt tight driving in. I'm not worried about them backing out at all now.

Not sure if it's clear enough, but the leading edge of the pad is grooved. at most 1 mm. the other side maybe 1/2 that.
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Right tensioner. Same for this one.
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Installed the cam bridges and only the end bridges with a thin coat of 574. Torqued to 7 ft/lb
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Tightened the chains, checked the lobe alignment with the gauges and the distance between lugs on the cams @ 113 mm.
Loosely installed the tensioners. I will tighten up the bolts when I install the oil tubes. Missing a crush washer to do this.

left side

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right side

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Sorry, pictures still suck. Not going to use this phone camera anymore.
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By WyattsRide
#175437
Got my Titan stuck in the swampy ground behind my house too this weekend! Had to have the neighbor pull me out! :roflmao:

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By worf
#175567
WyattsRide wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:48 am Did a little more this weekend when I had some time.
When I read this this morning, my plan was to respond in detail pointing out all the specific things that you could have done wrong but that you got right :)

Looks good. I see nothing wrong. Keep going.
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By WyattsRide
#180809
Ok, I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

I temporarily put the cam gears on, centered on the notch and screwed in the 5mm helper screws. I didn't torque the center bolts at 47 ft/lb yet. (Crank at 45 deg.) Strung the belt starting at the crank gear, then to the oil pump gear, then up to the 5-8 bank cam gear. But, the indicator marks on the cam gears (white) are very far from the notch on the cam shields. Without the belt on, do I simply crank the 5-8 cam gear clock-wise (with the 30mm large washer nut) until the indicator mark is 3 teeth before the notch on the cam shield then string the belt on? String the belt under the waterpump gear and do the same at bank 1-4? With the belt tensioned enough so that the belt doesn't slip off the gears, turn the crank gear 2 revolutions to TDC. The white marks on the cam gears and notch on the cam shields should line up?

After that, use the 32v'er tool to set the timing on the cams more closely?

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By worf
#180863
3.25 teeth (IIRC) *counter-clockwise* from the notch. Crank is at *before* top dead center.

So, when you crank clockwise to 0°TDC the cam gear will turn clockwise and the notch will be close.

You can also use the “other” notch in the Pork-Indicator to set timing at 45°BTDC. Much easier. You can even do that before you string the belt.

*But* don’t forget to remove the PI before you rotate the crank or you’ll be buying the 32’vR again! (Don’t ask how I know…)
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By WyattsRide
#180908
worf wrote:3.25 teeth (IIRC) *counter-clockwise* from the notch. Crank is at *before* top dead center.

So, when you crank clockwise to 0°TDC the cam gear will turn clockwise and the notch will be close.

You can also use the “other” notch in the Pork-Indicator to set timing at 45°BTDC. Much easier. You can even do that before you string the belt.

*But* don’t forget to remove the PI before you rotate the crank or you’ll be buying the 32’vR again! (Don’t ask how I know…)
Thanks Dave.
I think we are the same page. I just wrote it out differently. If I can today, I'll look into this more and post some pics.
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By WyattsRide
#181218
linderpat wrote:I'm around most evenings this week if you want to work after work, or next weekend for a bit too.
I'll give you a call today Ed.

Had some time yesterday to work on my engine.

With the crank at 45deg BTDC, I marked the 5-8 Cam gear and turned it to align with the shield notch.

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Strung the belt around, then under the waterpump rollar.

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Same for the 1-4 Cam gear and put the belt on.

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So far, so good.

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Now the moment of truth.

Put the HB on and then I SLOWLY turned the engine over two revolutions, making sure I wasn't feeling any valve contact through the first two. Feeling pretty good after 4 revolutions stopped at TDC.

I think success!?!?
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Feeling pretty good about myself, I decided to put on Geza's Ultimate 928 TVD Hub. Started cooking per the recipe.

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Slid right on all the way to the Timing Belt Guide.

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Put on the the ATI Super Damper. Didn't torque down or loctite the TP bolts yet. That's enough for the day!

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PK32V'r this weekend.
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By worf
#181220
WyattsRide wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:47 am So far, so good.

I think success!?!?
Belt looks ready to dial in the timing. Unless…
WyattsRide wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:47 am Feeling pretty good about myself, I decided to put on Geza's Ultimate 928 TVD Hub. Started cooking per the recipe.
I do not see any guide washers on the crank gear in the pictures above. The big ones with the notch for the crank Woodruff key and the lip that faces away from the belt?
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By WyattsRide
#181229
worf wrote:
WyattsRide wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:47 am So far, so good.

I think success!?!?
Belt looks ready to dial in the timing. Unless…
WyattsRide wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:47 am Feeling pretty good about myself, I decided to put on Geza's Ultimate 928 TVD Hub. Started cooking per the recipe.
I do not see any guide washers on the crank gear in the pictures above. The big ones with the notch for the crank Woodruff key and the lip that faces away from the belt?
Dave, are you talking about the Timing Belt Guide or what PET calls the Thrust Washers? Like what's sitting on the oil pan in this pic? If so, they are for sure there.

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By worf
#181232
WyattsRide wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:01 pm Dave, are you talking about the Timing Belt Guide or what PET calls the Thrust Washers? Like what's sitting on the oil pan in this pic?
Yeah. Those.
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By WyattsRide
#192417
Happy New Year!

Well, it's been a while since I've updated this thread. Not really much to share though.

Cleaned the cross brace and installed new Motor Mounts.

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I may not have had to replace the MMs. The old ones didn't seem too bad. But since I have good access now. I might as well.

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Cleaned, painted and added new insulation to the Heat Shields. Will put them on after I clean the whole engine bay.

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Before I get into cleaning the engine bay, I want to replace blue clutch hose.

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It seems to me that to get to the other end connection on the Clutch Master Cylinder, the Brake Booster would have to be removed. If so, any tips on removing this as it doesn't look easy? Or any good write ups on this? The only ones I could find is with the engine in and going through/cutting the fender well. I know Dave (Worf) is not in favor of this!
User avatar
By worf
#192431
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am Happy New Year!
You to.

WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am ... installed new Motor Mounts.
Unless the engine lift will drop the engine straight down for the last 6-ish inches, and if it's a crane-type it probably won't, I have found it much easier to install the engine if the motor mounts are mounted to the engine not the carrier. You do have to loosen the steering rack to get the nuts on.

WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am I may not have had to replace the MMs. The old ones didn't seem too bad. But since I have good access now. I might as well.
The "Volvo" mounts are a bit thicker than the OE mounts. Your OE mounts still look pretty OK. But, yeah, mounts should get replaced when the engine is out if they are more than 5-ish years old (exact age debatable...)

WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am It seems to me that to get to the other end connection on the Clutch Master Cylinder, the Brake Booster would have to be removed.
Nope. Oh it might help just a bit. But not much at all with the engine out.

With the engine in it isn't necessary either, but it does then help quite a bit more than just a bit.

WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am The only ones I could find is with the engine in and going through/cutting the fender well. I know Dave (Worf) is not in favor of this!
Cut a hole in your 928 for this job, especially when the motor is out, and you go on my ignore list.

WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am If so, any tips on removing this as it doesn't look easy? Or any good write ups on this?
The CMC bolts from the inside. It comes out easy. From memory
- detach the push rod from the pedal (spring clip and pin.)
- at that point you can withdraw the push rod and boot or not.
- undo two 8mm bolts
- pull off the cover plate
- pull off the sound deadening/insulation
- loose the two ~1"-long 8mm bushings behind the sound deadening, and spend some time finding them.

At that point the only thing 'holding' the CMC is the hard line. Best to loosen the fitting for it before you start unbolting the CMC.

When the CMC's out, send it to Whitepost for a rebuild unless you know the CMC is 5-ish years or younger or if you have always religiously flushed your brakes every two years since the CMC was last replaced. If you are reasonably sure it's the OE CMC then most-definitely send it to Whitepost since the twin-disc CMCs have been superseded by the GTS version that won't work without mods in a twin-disc.

Getting the CMC back in is a lot more "fun." When you're ready post back.

Oh, and do it before the engine goes back in!!
User avatar
By WyattsRide
#192467
worf wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:29 am
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am ... installed new Motor Mounts.
Unless the engine lift will drop the engine straight down for the last 6-ish inches, and if it's a crane-type it probably won't, I have found it much easier to install the engine if the motor mounts are mounted to the engine not the carrier. You do have to loosen the steering rack to get the nuts on.
Oh, boy. I'll have to give this one some thought Dave.

It was hard enough getting to the bottom plate nuts on the cross brace with the engine out, detaching the linkage so that it can be moved out of the way to access the MM nuts underneath. With the MMs already attached to the engine and dropping it down into the hole of the carrier and cross brace, that bottom plate would then have to be reattached with the engine "in". Those plate nuts will be a bitch to access to tighten.

worf wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:29 am
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am It seems to me that to get to the other end connection on the Clutch Master Cylinder, the Brake Booster would have to be removed.
Nope. Oh it might help just a bit. But not much at all with the engine out.

With the engine in it isn't necessary either, but it does then help quite a bit more than just a bit.

WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am The only ones I could find is with the engine in and going through/cutting the fender well. I know Dave (Worf) is not in favor of this!
Cut a hole in your 928 for this job, especially when the motor is out, and you go on my ignore list.
Ha Ha. I don't want this!!! So that won't happen.

worf wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:29 am
WyattsRide wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am If so, any tips on removing this as it doesn't look easy? Or any good write ups on this?
The CMC bolts from the inside. It comes out easy. From memory
- detach the push rod from the pedal (spring clip and pin.)
- at that point you can withdraw the push rod and boot or not.
- undo two 8mm bolts
- pull off the cover plate
- pull off the sound deadening/insulation
- loose the two ~1"-long 8mm bushings behind the sound deadening, and spend some time finding them.

At that point the only thing 'holding' the CMC is the hard line. Best to loosen the fitting for it before you start unbolting the CMC.

When the CMC's out, send it to Whitepost for a rebuild unless you know the CMC is 5-ish years or younger or if you have always religiously flushed your brakes every two years since the CMC was last replaced. If you are reasonably sure it's the OE CMC then most-definitely send it to Whitepost since the twin-disc CMCs have been superseded by the GTS version that won't work without mods in a twin-disc.

Getting the CMC back in is a lot more "fun." When you're ready post back.

Oh, and do it before the engine goes back in!!
Another thing I'll have to process. I'll get back. Thanks! :thumbup:
Gary Knox liked this
User avatar
By worf
#193813
Mrmerlin wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:01 pm Cut a hole in your 928 for this job, especially when the motor is out, and you go on my ignore list.
Classy Dave, .
I have never put anyone on ignore but this might be a great reason to go their. LOL
Just before Christmas I finished working on a ‘78 where a previous shop had cut the fender to do the CMC and only informed the owner (who’d owned it for 25+ years at the time) after the fact. The owner was mega-ultra pissed at that shop.

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