[i am not a traitor]

That screen in the back would be pretty awesome for road trips with the kids.

But the grills remind me of:

[AKSteve]

But the grills remind me of:

<snipped: pic of pig>

Like I said, it looks great in black because you can barely see the grille. Given that it's all-electric, those grilles really only add drag to the car and make it less efficient.

EDIT: Oops, I thought the entire 7-Series was now all-electric. Six and eight-cylinder engines now feature 48V mild hybrid technology while the i7 xDrive60 is all-electric.

[fpena944]

That screen in the back would be pretty awesome for road trips with the kids.

But the grills remind me of:

But the grills remind me of:

<snipped: pic of pig>

I was trying to visualize what it looks like and you nailed it!

Like I said, it looks great in black because you can barely see the grille. Given that it's all-electric, those grilles really only add drag to the car and make it less efficient.

EDIT: Oops, I thought the entire 7-Series was now all-electric. Six and eight-cylinder engines now feature 48V mild hybrid technology while the i7 xDrive60 is all-electric.

Yeah I didn't think BMW would be letting it's flagship car fall victim to the all-electric strategy. Even with all of their advantages there are some serious infrastructure and convenience issues with electric vehicles right now.

[ranger22]

Just when I thought BMWs couldn’t be any uglier…..they prove me wrong.

[fpena944]

For me personally, this is the best looking modern BMW ever made. Was so close to buying one of these but instead bought a house, got divorced, and then bought a 944 S2 instead!

image.png

[AKSteve]

For me personally, this is the best looking modern BMW ever made. Was so close to buying one of these but instead bought a house, got divorced, and then bought a 944 S2 instead!

image.png

Nice! I bought one of those new back in 2002. I had it custom-ordered with manual seats and no moonroof to make sure I would fit in it. Carbon Black with Cinnamon leather and the SMG transmission. The dealership was actually on the east coast and I picked it up in Wilmington Delaware of all places and drove back across the country with my Dad. He always says that trip is one of his favorite memories. I kind of wish I had held onto it. The E46 M3 is considered by many to be the best of the M models.

[tooloud10]

China has ruined BMW.

[ranger22]

China has ruined BMW.

Aha! You nailed it! I finally understand what’s happening at BMW.

[AKSteve]

China has ruined BMW.

Aha! You nailed it! I finally understand what’s happening at BMW.

I guess you missed the very first post of this thread.

[AKSteve]

Well this is impressive considering the M3 is bigger, heavier and has a much smaller engine. And it is STOCK except for Stage 1 ECU tune.

[fpena944]

Not BMW but still similar design and interesting article:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/le ... f168828b6d

Text Snippet

Grilles have long been a contentious point in auto styling trends; as a poorly-crafted face can tank an entire car company. A common complaint of modern autos is that they bear furious visages, with angry LED headlamps flanking a massive, scowling maw of a grille, and perhaps no car manufacturer has had this gripe leveled at them more than Lexus. Lexus' modern design language includes the "spindle grille," which has polarized buyers since its inception in the early 2010s. Now, in an interview with Automotive News, Lexus global design head Koichi Suga admits the grilles will be getting toned down thanks to customer feedback.

Suga, while discussing Lexus' upcoming styling changes for its pivot to electric vehicles, admitted that Lexus market research showed that the massive, hourglass-shaped grilles of the company's ICE-powered cars have been a turnoff for some consumers, especially American ones. While the most polarizing of these designs has been the "spindle" style, which has an intricate diamond weave encompassing the front of the car (modeled above on the RC F), even the company's more traditional grille designs are still the dominant feature of its vehicles (such as on the new LX600 the company introduced this year).

The company's front fascia has been under fire since virtually the moment the spindle grille was designed, which was a deep departure from the company's previously restrained visual language. It was introduced as an attempt to woo younger buyers, but with mixed results. Before his retirement in 2018, Lexus VP Jeff Bracken stated in an interview regarding the grilles; "I'll take phone calls from some of these owners and will literally spend 45 minutes to an hour on the phone with me just expressing how disappointed they are." As a result, the company is attempting to keep the signature look but integrate it more seamlessly into the body, with what Lexus calls the "spindle body, " showcased in the company's new RZ plug-in electric.

"We want to maintain the spindle shape itself. But the spindle has always been based on the functionality of what's happening under the hood," Suga noted to AN. With no need for radiator cooling and a directive from Toyota's global design boss to avoid fake grilles when possible, the new "spindle body" allows Lexus to keep its brand design while hopefully not drawing as many parallels to Predator (1987).

"The new spindle execution is based on this learning" about customer preferences, Suga added. "We need the right balance," he said. He also, however, noted that people were already drawing comparisons between the newly-redesigned Lexus RX's front fascia and Darth Vader's helmet, so this new balance may still not appease all luxury shoppers.

[amdavid]

It's not growing on me....

[fpena944]

It's not growing on me....

That one doesn't bother me as much. But I don't like how it looks on the 7-series.

[AKSteve]

Ugly as it may be to some, Car & Driver just tested the coupe version of my car and the results are pretty stunning.

0-60 in 2.8sec. 1/4 mile in 11.0 @ 125mph.

I guess add a couple of tenths to those numbers since I have a convertible. But still. On paper, that beats my 911 C4S. Having driven both, I would say the 911 feels faster, but it's close.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a4 ... e-numbers/

[amdavid]

Ugly as it may be to some, Car & Driver just tested the coupe version of my car and the results are pretty stunning.

0-60 in 2.8sec. 1/4 mile in 11.0 @ 125mph.

I guess add a couple of tenths to those numbers since I have a convertible. But still. On paper, that beats my 911 C4S. Having driven both, I would say the 911 feels faster, but it's close.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a4 ... e-numbers/

My comments were based on judging a book by its cover......the cover is ugly so I don't care about the contents. I did say in an earlier comment, "l'll bet it will be a blast to drive". I keep thinking "I wouldn't fk her with your dick"....kinda like "I wouldn't drive it if you paid for it".

Being the compassionate person I am.............I will say that I'm glad you're happy and enjoying "it".

You know my opinion on the grills, I'll leave it alone now.

[AKSteve]

Ugly as it may be to some, Car & Driver just tested the coupe version of my car and the results are pretty stunning.

0-60 in 2.8sec. 1/4 mile in 11.0 @ 125mph.

I guess add a couple of tenths to those numbers since I have a convertible. But still. On paper, that beats my 911 C4S. Having driven both, I would say the 911 feels faster, but it's close.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a4 ... e-numbers/

My comments were based on judging a book by its cover......the cover is ugly so I don't care about the contents. I did say in an earlier comment, "l'll bet it will be a blast to drive". I keep thinking "I wouldn't fk her with your dick"....kinda like "I wouldn't drive it if you paid for it".

Being the compassionate person I am.............I will say that I'm glad you're happy and enjoying "it".

You know my opinion on the grills, I'll leave it alone now.

No problem. And I understand that some people absolutely hate the grilles and can't get over how they look. I think this mindset is especially strong with longtime car enthusiasts who are just used to seeing BMW's look a certain way. I'm one of those people as well and I absolutely would not own this car in certain colors based solely on how those grilles look with the wrong color. But my particular color combination looks great to me and I hardly even notice the grilles. This car also gets more comments and compliments than I ever expected, way more than any Porsche I've owned. People just really seem to like this car. My only other thought is that maybe you aren't looking at it right. :)

[ranger22]

This car also gets more comments and compliments than I ever expected, way more than any Porsche I've owned. People just really seem to like this car. My only other thought is that maybe you aren't looking at it right. :)

Perhaps people are giving you compliments in a “bless his heart” kind of way. They take pity on the person convinced their baby ain’t ugry!

[AKSteve]

This car also gets more comments and compliments than I ever expected, way more than any Porsche I've owned. People just really seem to like this car. My only other thought is that maybe you aren't looking at it right. :)

Perhaps people are giving you compliments in a “bless his heart” kind of way. They take pity on the person convinced their baby ain’t ugry!

Bless your heart, but No. In one short drive through downtown the other night, I got 2 "nice car, man!" comments yelled at me, one big thumbs up from a guy crossing the street and had a brief conversation with 2 kids on the corner at a light who wanted to know if it was an M6.

Oh, and not one single comment by anyone at all yet about the grilles. The criticism seems limited to online discussion forums.

[fpena944]

I gotta say, the color combo does work for me. The grill is not the focus because it's the same color as the vehicle itself. So I can see people offering compliments because the black and red does look sharp.

[amdavid]

This car also gets more comments and compliments than I ever expected, way more than any Porsche I've owned. People just really seem to like this car. My only other thought is that maybe you aren't looking at it right. :)

Perhaps people are giving you compliments in a “bless his heart” kind of way. They take pity on the person convinced their baby ain’t ugry!

Bless your heart, but No. In one short drive through downtown the other night, I got 2 "nice car, man!" comments yelled at me, one big thumbs up from a guy crossing the street and had a brief conversation with 2 kids on the corner at a light who wanted to know if it was an M6.

Oh, and not one single comment by anyone at all yet about the grilles. The criticism seems limited to online discussion forums.

Nice pic, better than a light color for sure, hides a bit of the hideous. It amazes me you get more compliments on that rig than the Porsche....it's like comparing Roseanne Barr with say Bella Hadid....there's not one.

[fpena944]

Perhaps people are giving you compliments in a “bless his heart” kind of way. They take pity on the person convinced their baby ain’t ugry!

Bless your heart, but No. In one short drive through downtown the other night, I got 2 "nice car, man!" comments yelled at me, one big thumbs up from a guy crossing the street and had a brief conversation with 2 kids on the corner at a light who wanted to know if it was an M6.

Oh, and not one single comment by anyone at all yet about the grilles. The criticism seems limited to online discussion forums.

Nice pic, better than a light color for sure, hides a bit of the hideous. It amazes me you get more compliments on that rig than the Porsche....it's like comparing Roseanne Barr with say Bella Hadid....there's not one.

Well remember this is a new model that does look different than the previous one.

With our Porsches they maintain a very similar appearance throughout the years so people become somewhat blind to the fact that they exist.

I know the 996 is an ugly duckling but I get so many more compliments on my Cayman that I do on the 911. Not sure if it's because it looks so different than other P-cars or if people just hate the 996

[AKSteve]

BMW has "updated" the grilles for the upcoming 560h.p. 2023 3.0 CSL. Less awful?

[i am not a traitor]

Much better.

[amdavid]

"less" awful, yes.

[tooloud10]

It amazes me you get more compliments on that rig than the Porsche....

I've received more compliments on my '95 Miata than all my other cars combined. Always makes me laugh when people call it a girl's car because females are indeed more interested in talking about it than they are in my 996 or Raptor.

BMW has "updated" the grilles for the upcoming 560h.p. 2023 3.0 CSL. Less awful?

Definitely less awful. What's the likelihood that this will be an LCI change in a couple years?

[AKSteve]

It amazes me you get more compliments on that rig than the Porsche....

I've received more compliments on my '95 Miata than all my other cars combined. Always makes me laugh when people call it a girl's car because females are indeed more interested in talking about it than they are in my 996 or Raptor.

BMW has "updated" the grilles for the upcoming 560h.p. 2023 3.0 CSL. Less awful?

Definitely less awful. What's the likelihood that this will be an LCI change in a couple years?

Quite shocked by the attention that the car is getting. I get some sort of comment shouted at me basically every time I take it out for a drive. A guy with a strong Indian accent cracked me up yesterday when he yelled over to me, "Excuse me! Excuse me, sir! I just want to tell you that I like your car very much and that it makes me sad that I cannot afford one for myself!" Between the accent and how polite he was, I couldn't stop laughing for a minute or so.

As for BMW updating the grilles in the next LCI, who knows. But they seem to be doubling down on huge grilles with the new 7 Series. They're even adding lights to the grilles:

[amdavid]

Sorry, not jumping on this wagon.

I saw one in green with top down this weekend in Tahoe......

To each their own, I'm glad you're enjoying the car.

[AKSteve]

To each their own, I'm glad you're enjoying the car.

Loving it. I'm going to have a few performance upgrades installed soon. Cold air intake, downpipes and a JB4 piggyback tune. That should get the 0-60 time down to under 3 seconds. This car may actually wind up being quicker than the 991 turbo cabriolet that I sold last year.

[Bill d Cat]

It looks like the 2023 M2 doesn't get the Bizarro World grill.

[AKSteve]

It looks like the 2023 M2 doesn't get the Bizarro World grill.

Yeah, I don't quite get it. The 2 and 3 Series have normal grilles, but the M3 has the same giant grille as the 4 Series and M4. It's like they've just decided that certain models will wind up with the giant oversized grilles, with the new 7 Series getting the largest grille of all.

Update on my own car, I have had downpipes, cold air intake and JB4 piggyback tune installed and the car just screams. It's definitely quicker than my 992 C4S. I'm hoping to do use my Dragy to time some 0-60 runs in the near future, provided the rain ever stops and the sun ever comes back out again.

[fpena944]

It looks like the 2023 M2 doesn't get the Bizarro World grill.

Yeah, I don't quite get it. The 2 and 3 Series have normal grilles, but the M3 has the same giant grille as the 4 Series and M4. It's like they've just decided that certain models will wind up with the giant oversized grilles, with the new 7 Series getting the largest grille of all.

Update on my own car, I have had downpipes, cold air intake and JB4 piggyback tune installed and the car just screams. It's definitely quicker than my 992 C4S. I'm hoping to do use my Dragy to time some 0-60 runs in the near future, provided the rain ever stops and the sun ever comes back out again.

What do you think total horsepower is bow with the mods?

[AKSteve]

What do you think total horsepower is bow with the mods?

Hard to guess without doing a dyne test. I've heard that the stock engine from the factory puts out about 50hp more than BMW claims, so 550hp rather than 503. This is a bigger, heavier car than my 991 turbo cab, but it currently feels at least as quick, if not quicker than that car. Plus it makes these great whooshing and hissing sounds thanks to the cold air intakes. I'm gonna guess it's making about 650hp with the current 95 octane fuel and the JB4 set to map 3.

The current model of M3/M4 w xDrive is really a performance bargain. You get 911S performance out of the box and supercar performance with just a few mods.

[AKSteve]

Check this out. The only mods are downpipes, a JB4 piggyback tune and E85 gas. I think maybe slightly wider rear tires also. I believe this car is making around 700hp.

0-60: 2.55sec
1/4mi: 10.09 @ 136.35mph.

These cars are crazy fast with just minor mods.

[N_Jay]

The fugly grills of the X3 and Q5 are one of the big reasons we are leaning towards a Macan.

[AKSteve]

The fugly grills of the X3 and Q5 are one of the big reasons we are leaning towards a Macan.

The X3 has too big of a grille for you? I thought it was one of the BMW's that kept a normal-sized grille.

This 2022 X3 looks ok to me:

[N_Jay]

The fugly grills of the X3 and Q5 are one of the big reasons we are leaning towards a Macan.

The X3 has too big of a grille for you? I thought it was one of the BMW's that kept a normal-sized grille.

This 2022 X3 looks ok to me:

It seems 1/2 way between their fugly "I'm a BMW" and their really Fugly "I'm a BMW SUV"

The X3 overall is close to what we want. (Except of the overall "looks" (Much of it teh BMW nose) that my wife hates)
The Macan has a slight better ride and handling (I think it has a wider and longer wheelbase).
The GLC300 is too soft and did not have great seats (probably have to move up to the AMG versions, but they felt overpriced.
The Q5 was close, with just slightly less sporty ride and handling (but livable) but needed the upgraded seats which apparently are hard to find without going to a SQ5.
GLC, X3m, and Q5 all had more back seat room than the Macan (its one low score)

[AKSteve]

The X3 overall is close to what we want. (Except of the overall "looks" (Much of it teh BMW nose) that my wife hates)

FWIW, the X3 M Competition has the same 503 S58 ///M engine that's in my M4. Car & Driver timed it at 3.3 seconds 0-60mph, which is nuts for an SUV.

https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x3-m

[ranger22]

ICYMI.
Recently leaked is a rendering of the M2 coming soon.

F5421065-AF7D-4141-9313-5D96EF6568D6.jpeg

[fpena944]

ICYMI.
Recently leaked is a rendering of the M2 coming soon.

F5421065-AF7D-4141-9313-5D96EF6568D6.jpeg

Just watched a recent Doug Demuro video reviewing a 1989 M5. He said it's length was within a couple of inches of the new 2-series!

Wow cars sure have grown when the baby is now bigger than what was considered a mid-sized in the past.

[AKSteve]

ICYMI.
Recently leaked is a rendering of the M2 coming soon.

F5421065-AF7D-4141-9313-5D96EF6568D6.jpeg

The actual new M2 design may not have a huge grille, but the grille still looks goofy because it has a weird shape now. I don't know why BMW keeps doing this. Especially since every model seems to have a a grille with a totally different shape now. There's no continuity between the different models.

[AKSteve]

Are you a 38 year old chinaman? Well, here's a car that was designed for you:

[JDS968]

ICYMI.
Recently leaked is a rendering of the M2 coming soon.

F5421065-AF7D-4141-9313-5D96EF6568D6.jpeg

Just watched a recent Doug Demuro video reviewing a 1989 M5. He said it's length was within a couple of inches of the new 2-series!

Wow cars sure have grown when the baby is now bigger than what was considered a mid-sized in the past.

I have those E28 M5s on my Bring a Trailer notifications and a LOT of them have moved this year. I really want one, but the Euro version with the correct engine and the normal bumpers instead of the hideous diving boards. Or maybe retrofit the Euro bumpers and swap an E34 3.8L. Something about an old analog sport sedan with ITBs and about the same weight as my Z06 is just so bonkers I really want it.

[fpena944]

ICYMI.
Recently leaked is a rendering of the M2 coming soon.

F5421065-AF7D-4141-9313-5D96EF6568D6.jpeg

Just watched a recent Doug Demuro video reviewing a 1989 M5. He said it's length was within a couple of inches of the new 2-series!

Wow cars sure have grown when the baby is now bigger than what was considered a mid-sized in the past.

I have those E28 M5s on my Bring a Trailer notifications and a LOT of them have moved this year. I really want one, but the Euro version with the correct engine and the normal bumpers instead of the hideous diving boards. Or maybe retrofit the Euro bumpers and swap an E34 3.8L. Something about an old analog sport sedan with ITBs and about the same weight as my Z06 is just so bonkers I really want it.

As much as we're talking crap about the new designs you have to admit those old US spec bumpers they stuck on Euro cars were hideous. And that's probably the nicest way to describe them!

[JDS968]

Just watched a recent Doug Demuro video reviewing a 1989 M5. He said it's length was within a couple of inches of the new 2-series!

Wow cars sure have grown when the baby is now bigger than what was considered a mid-sized in the past.

I have those E28 M5s on my Bring a Trailer notifications and a LOT of them have moved this year. I really want one, but the Euro version with the correct engine and the normal bumpers instead of the hideous diving boards. Or maybe retrofit the Euro bumpers and swap an E34 3.8L. Something about an old analog sport sedan with ITBs and about the same weight as my Z06 is just so bonkers I really want it.

As much as we're talking crap about the new designs you have to admit those old US spec bumpers they stuck on Euro cars were hideous. And that's probably the nicest way to describe them!

The US-spec bumpers ruined the styling of a LOT of great designs, but those were really just the result of last-minute attempts to comply with a bonehead federal regulation. These enormous grilles are purely a styling choice dreamed up to chase sales to millennial Chinese.

[amdavid]

and neither has the arse..

[jcnesq]

[TRAKCAR]

I rented a 745e last time in Germany.
Very fast, very soft, but no engine sound, looks terrible, seats horrible, no rear leg room, no truck space.

We also had a 530D BMW looked, drove and did everything better….

[TRAKCAR]

and neither has the arse..

A friend bought one and I thought it was AI and made fun of it when it just came out and hadn’t seen one yet…

[AKSteve]

and neither has the arse..

A friend bought one and I thought it was AI and made fun of it when it just came out and hadn’t seen one yet…

That looks totally different from what BMW shows on its own website.




https://www.bmwusa.com/content/dam/bmwu ... esktop.jpg

[ranger22]

and neither has the arse..

A friend bought one and I thought it was AI and made fun of it when it just came out and hadn’t seen one yet…

That looks totally different from what BMW shows on its own website.




https://www.bmwusa.com/content/dam/bmwu ... esktop.jpg

They are both fugly!