Watercooled 911s
  • User avatar
  • User avatar
  • User avatar
  • User avatar
  • User avatar
  • User avatar
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#23862
amdavid wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:37 am Image
Yes! It was a great feeling when it fired up.

To build oil pressure, I followed the quick start, and off, procedure until pressure registered on the gauge. I tried to follow a break-in procedure as defined by a reputable engine builder. As a part of that, I ran the engine at about 1500 rpm for close to the suggested 30 minutes. I ended up cutting it a bit short; probably at about 25 minutes. I noticed the smell of oil burning!
The power steering lines were not properly attached when the engine was delivered to the engine bay. But that's not all.
There was a coolant leak and a lot of coolant left in the bank #2 exhaust from the original problem. Fluids accumulated on the floor, making it easy to trace the areas of need.

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#24019
Getting the P/S lines installed properly was one of the first things that needed to be addressed. I have a cheap copy of the factory workshop manual on CD. For some reason, it completely missed the section on steering. A pal at RL was actually building his engine at the same time as me. He went through this same issue and posted a copy of the pages from the WSM that covered how to properly make those connections.

Image

The big wet spot behind the left side exhaust outlet was due to the remaining coolant from the crack in the #5 cylinder. It was expected that it would burn-off within a few weeks of heat cycles. This has proven to be the case.

The two little wet spots below the center of the engine were traced to a leaking coolant plug gasket and an improperly installed coolant hose. The gasket was quickly replaced with one that I had purchased about a year earlier.

It turned out the perceived mis-installation was, in fact, a cracked hose. A replacement was ordered and arrived within a few days. All test drives were off, until that hose got replaced. And of course, the Airlift had to be used again to vacuum fill the cooling system.

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#24027
As has been my practice, I always do a check of oil level using the gauge on the dash prior to start-up. When I did this for the first time after the engine was installed, I got no reading and a flashing warning. I knew there was oil, since I dumped in 9 quarts. The same sensor also provides a reading of oil temperature. When hooked up to my Durametric, I got a 40 C reading whether warm or cold. Further evidence that that connection had become compromised. It became obvious that when I was wrestling with the fuel coolant lines on the A/C compressor, I dislodged (as in snapped off) the connector.

I pulled out the throttle body and set about reinstalling that connector.

Image

I used some silicone sealer to give a little extra support. The connector is hidden between a bunch of stuff, but with enough things out of the way, it is accessible.

Image

Now with that functioning, I discovered that the gauge was registering the oil level below the min mark. It took another 1.5 quarts to bring it to this level.

Image

Now it is finally time to go for a short test drive. I took about 8 laps of our backyard track.

Image

Everything checked out OK, so it was off to the gas station for a fill-up.
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#24505
I'll fill in some more last installments on the engine build.

Just to jump ahead, again - this was from yesterday. I am putting together a rally. About 2/3 were defined yesterday. Measurement to 0.001 miles still needs to take place. The route instructions and timing also need complete definition. It was a nice warm fall day, so I took a vacation day from work...

Image

Image

As to final measurement, I am working on a simple mount for my rally odometer. It will swing toward me, or toward a navigator, as needed. When I run solo, I need to see the display.

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#25059
After the quick check-out on the track, it was off to fill up with fuel.

Image

Late-May, first time out in the real world after six months.

Image

Image

I cleaned out the weeds on the driver's side while at the gas station. Looks as though I missed the other side...

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#25064
Since the first start up, I have tried to monitor sensor readings. Cam deviation is not ideal. I may have missed a bit on bank #1. I'd fix it, but it would involve dropping the engine again. I'll keep monitoring it, but I'll need a real good reason to go there again.

Image

Checking the health of the AOS is also recommended as a part of the break-in procedure (per RND engines). I expected no issues, and found none.

Image

I didn't bother to figure out how to zero the manometer, but when exposed to the atmosphere, the delta comes in at exactly what it should read.

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#25067
By mid-June, I was accumulating miles and following the break-in procedure. It involved a lot of strong acceleration runs in second gear to about 6000 rpm, and then instant drop-throttle. This engine braking is reputed to be the best way to get the rings to seal. I did this every time I was out and about.

Normal drives to and from work would accumulate about 70 miles a day. I had to find other routes due to our work from home protocol. There are no twisty roads like this on my work commute.

Image

I even ended up in Hell on some of these trips.

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#25070
It took until August to get enough miles on the original break-in oil. At about 700 miles, I drained it and put in the next level of conventional oil. I dropped the sump plate to inspect internally. All looked good. Here is a collection of stuff - new rear shocks, an LN low temp thermostat (to replace the other brand LTT), oil and filter.

Image

With the new shocks, I also installed small spacers at the top of each shock and strut mount. Along with the slight increase in ride height, I installed slightly taller winter tires. Gained about 1/2" all around.

Image

Image

Still need to install the skid plate I picked-up.

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#25138
amdavid wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:00 pm You're having fun, I'm having fun.......good stuff. I want to join you for a drive!
If you ever make it this way - let me know. We can find some good roads... or just blast around the track...
amdavid liked this
User avatar
By fpena944
#27184
So when all is said and done, are the savings significant enough to DIY compared to sending it away to Flat 6 or similar?

Understand if you'd rather not share but just curious.
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#27223
fpena944 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:14 am So when all is said and done, are the savings significant enough to DIY compared to sending it away to Flat 6 or similar?

Understand if you'd rather not share but just curious.
Not at all.

Here is my reasoning:
1) I have done essentially all of my own work since I was in my teens. The only thing I don't have are engine machining equipment. So that has to be farmed out.
1a) I used to have to pay to have tires mounted and balanced. Since the 90s, I've had my own equipment, so I am now able to do that myself. With hundreds of wheels and tires - ranging from racing slicks to rally tires - that cost adds up fast.

2) The turn around at Flatsix is more than a year. I wanted to be able to use my car, again, sooner than that. It took me almost exactly six months from engine drop to a proper test drive.

3) The cost of a 'basic' build from Flatsix is north of $25k. The cost goes up fast if you want anything extra. You do get what you pay for - they are probably the best in the business and they do not cut corners.

4) All totaled I sank about $15k into everything to build this engine. That includes:
~$8500 for the block work at LN (3.8 Nickies, pistons, pins, head gaskets, etc.)
~$2500 for the head work at Hamheads
$1400 for the IMS Solution
~$1250 in parts
~$1250 in tools, reference materials ($600 for the "Focus On: M96 Engine Assembly" DVD set), chemicals and supplies.

So now I have an engine I have complete confidence in. When I bought the car, I knew it was only a matter of time before something would fail. I was fortunate to catch it before serious damage was done.
I have addressed most of the weaknesses:
Nickies: to prevent bore scoring, bore cracking, D-chunk.
IMS Solution: IMS Bearing
Pinned the IMS
Heads were pressure tested and fully updated (valve springs, guides, valve grind, minor flow work)
Low temp thermostat
Ultimate Air Oil Separator
Aftermarket (ARP) con-rod bolts and AOS coolant pipe.
All wear items replaced with new parts

And I have a tremendous amount of satisfaction in accomplishing this all on my own. Priceless.

Now I can just drive it.

Image

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#27287
One more thing - I spent more to build the engine than I did to buy the car.

I've always tried to buy cheap, fix what needs fixing, then drive the hell out of it.
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#38922
Other than the few hundred miles I put on Speedy while laying out, and measuring, the Hell and Back rally, the miles are not piling up quickly.

But I am having fun. See?

Image

I'm at a little over 136,000 miles on the odometer.

Got two cases of oil today. Will do a change soon. Not because it's time, or enough miles have been accumulated - but because I polluted the contents. While performing a final check of the rally route, I encountered a big rock that I couldn't avoid. There was a big clunk at the rear. My mind raced.... What's the worst thing I could expect? Maybe a damaged sump... Maybe a damaged oil filter... Or maybe I got lucky?

I started smelling oil right away! Shit! Looked immediately at the oil pressure gauge. It dropped like a rock and the warning light came on. Double shit!

Luckily it was just the filter that took the biggest hit.

Image

My wife rescued me, again. I had her bring a filter and a bunch of oil. The closest viscosity match I had in quantity was Mobil 1. So about half is Driven HR5 and half is M1.

I didn't waste any time getting the skid plate on - the next day. Note the big gouge on the sump plate. A breach there, would really suck.

Image
Last edited by Scott at Team Harco on Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By fpena944
#39002
Wow what a lucky break! Probably the cheapest fix for a sudden drop in oil pressure you could find.

Mine has also been in a semi-slumber too. I think I just filled up my 3rd tank of gas since the pandemic began. So at this rate it'll take me 5 years to get to 200k miles!
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#40298
fpena944 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:11 pm Wow what a lucky break! Probably the cheapest fix for a sudden drop in oil pressure you could find.

Mine has also been in a semi-slumber too. I think I just filled up my 3rd tank of gas since the pandemic began. So at this rate it'll take me 5 years to get to 200k miles!
Yes - lucky.

I'm still getting out about once a week. My chiropractor is about 15 miles away. So at the least, I get to put on about 30 miles. Nothing like the 70 mile daily total when I was in the office. It's not a bad thing. Since we bought the farm (makes me laugh every time I say that), I've always said I don't ever want to leave (unless it's to buy beer).

I can still go into work pretty much anytime I want - but I generally don't want. I'm looking forward to getting on the roads when we get a good snow. They salt around here, so I'll need to be careful when and where I choose to play. Still looking back on the fun I had laying out the rally. Not sure if I'll use Speedy to layout my January rally or not. I plan to install sending units to each front axle shaft so I don't have to use the external drive unit I used for Hell and Back. It's more robust and won't look as odd.

Here are some shots from the day of Hell and Back...

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
By fpena944
#40375
Scott at Team Harco wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:49 pm
fpena944 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:11 pm Wow what a lucky break! Probably the cheapest fix for a sudden drop in oil pressure you could find.

Mine has also been in a semi-slumber too. I think I just filled up my 3rd tank of gas since the pandemic began. So at this rate it'll take me 5 years to get to 200k miles!
Yes - lucky.

I'm still getting out about once a week. My chiropractor is about 15 miles away. So at the least, I get to put on about 30 miles. Nothing like the 70 mile daily total when I was in the office. It's not a bad thing. Since we bought the farm (makes me laugh every time I say that), I've always said I don't ever want to leave (unless it's to buy beer).

I can still go into work pretty much anytime I want - but I generally don't want. I'm looking forward to getting on the roads when we get a good snow. They salt around here, so I'll need to be careful when and where I choose to play. Still looking back on the fun I had laying out the rally. Not sure if I'll use Speedy to layout my January rally or not. I plan to install sending units to each front axle shaft so I don't have to use the external drive unit I used for Hell and Back. It's more robust and won't look as odd.

Here are some shots from the day of Hell and Back...

Image

Image

Image
What does the sensor measure? If distance why not a GPS unit as wouldn't that be more accurate?

I finally took my car on a bit of a drive this past weekend. Son and I headed to a monster truck event that was about 30 miles away. Then the following night I took the hardtop off for the first time in two years as we went cruising around checking out the Christmas light displays.

Exhaust sounded so good with the top off! :biggrin:

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#40452
fpena944 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:14 pm What does the sensor measure? If distance why not a GPS unit as wouldn't that be more accurate?

I finally took my car on a bit of a drive this past weekend. Son and I headed to a monster truck event that was about 30 miles away. Then the following night I took the hardtop off for the first time in two years as we went cruising around checking out the Christmas light displays.

Exhaust sounded so good with the top off! :biggrin:

Image
Yes - it's a hall-effect sensor that sends a pulse to the rally odometer. GPS may or may not be precise enough. I have not heard of a good GPS devise that could be used for course layout. I think they do exist, but the tried and true old tech stuff works well. We need resolution to 0.001 miles. So precision is vital. Here's a small slice of the first page of the HaB route instructions.

Image

Here's the temporary setup that I used for mounting my ALFA "B-box" (calibratable odometer). The sender has three leads. 5v+, ground and the signal (pulse), they connect at the left hand side of the box. The little segment of hockey stick between the seats has a switch on it to pause the display. It allows me to freeze the mileage so I can record it at a convenient time and (safe) place.

Image

Image

I have been enjoying the exhaust sound of my car, since the rebuild. Looking forward to getting the top off next summer. :thumbup:
amdavid liked this
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#44615
The last few days have been spent letting the oil out and wiring up a hall effect sender at one of the front axle shafts.

I'll skip photos of the oil change; though with the skid plate in place, it's a little different.

Anytime I install an odometer sender, I look for the best front axle shaft to aim at. There needs to be mounting access for the piece that holds the sender. Then there have to be good magnet mounting options on a rotating component. The inner CV axle mounting is usually good for both criteria.

Image

Two magnets are mounted opposite each other and wrapped with reinforced packaging tape. Pay attention to the direction of wrap, if you're trying this at home.

Image

Once that is sorted, it's time to work backward to run the wiring.
This cheap sender has only a 5' wire length. To go uninterrupted usually takes 8'+, depending on how clean the installation is. The shortest, is wire that gets run through a door seal. There's always a short jump-off to get from a fender to a door. Plus getting squashed repeatedly can induce wiring fatigue.

I like using single leads from Romex as wire pullers. The white lead is pulling the sender lead over the front diff, and up through a drain hole on the front cowl.

Technical difficulties... to be continued...
Last edited by Scott at Team Harco on Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#44632
DSC_0427.JPG
Here's the other end once it was pulled through the drain hole.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#44666
Next step is to get the signal to the odometer. That means inside the car. There's a nice plug behind the battery. Since I've gone to the trouble of getting this far, I decided to run two leads into the car. I can add another sender, or swap, if a problem occurs with the primary. Regardless, I put two holes in the plug and pulled the leads through.

Image

It was easy to route these two leads so they are well hidden. The loose ends are just placed near where the odometer might be mounted. This will get tidied up when the terminals get crimped on. I don't see a good clean mount to the dash, without serious modification, so I'll keep using the temporary mount shown a few posts up.

Image

A nice junction point was found close to where the sender lead ends. A three lead terminal block keeps it simple and serviceable. The spare lead is visible here, and can be brought into service with much less bother when compared to the original installation.

Image
User avatar
By hlee96
#74056
Amazing thread Scott! Thank you for posting this inspiring thread that made Rennlist famous years ago. Now, you've started OpenRoad down the same Rennlist characteristic here, and hopefully, all the great without the drama there.

:rockon:
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#91581
When I informed my daughter of my medical condition, she suggested we take a trip. My mind went immediately to Michigan's upper peninsula. So we went there about three weeks ago. My son drove his Miata, my daughter (and boyfriend) her VW and my wife and I took Speedy.

Great driving roads and great sites. Rolled over 138,300 in the last couple of days. Car ran great, and never missed a beat. :beerchug:

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Scott at Team Harco on Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
latonnelier liked this
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#153555
Dusting off this thread with a little reminiscing. It's been nearly a year since our UP trip. Sadly, Speedy has not been driven since late last fall. I can barely use my arms, so driving is pretty much out of the question. I want to have the oil changed. Will have to give direction to the willing helper...

Here are a few more shots from our glorious trip. Daughter's boy friend took these.

Image

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
By Scott at Team Harco
#153561
All of the work I put in to the Hell and Back Rally (a few posts up) were rewarded with a major award. I was presented the David Teter award for the best National Tour Rally of 2020. Nice glass brick...

Image
XR4Tim liked this
78 in Fort worth

Ed that would look good with new tan carpets and b[…]

Ineos Grenadier

It’s not an SUV. It’s a hardcore offro[…]

This upcoming DFW First Saturday Breakfast will be[…]

Looks like I have one tracked down. Thanks guys[…]