[UDPride]

Im copying this from the Volvo forums to get your opinions on a small disaster I am dealing with:

MY POST #1:

I have a 2010 XC70 T6 with 105,000. Bought it 2yrs ago w/100K miles. Totally uneventful until about 4-5 months ago. Started hearing thumps and/or taps/knocks on acceleration/turns. At first not obscene, but has progressively gotten worse and now its jinglin-and-jangling. Definitely coming from front end and to my ear the driver's side but hard to tell driving. Cars still drives and accelerates okay but there's obviously a problem that's getting highly pronounced.

At first I thought hmm maybe CV joints because they often thump and tick on turns/accel. Took it into my shop today and gave them my observations. Got a call back that they hear all the noises but with their audio sensors its not picking up like anything CV related and they think its a fair bet in the transfer case or tranny. But to know for sure they need to put several hours into tearing it apart to find out for sure. That labor alone is close to $1000.

Lets say the transfer case is shot and needs replaced. I see used ones in the $300 range between 60-100K miles. But honestly how reliable would a used one be even with an "A" rating? My car has 105K on it and if mine bit the dust at that mileage wouldn't these others be on their last legs too? Looks like new OEM ones are in the $2000 range. I plan to keep this car for at least another 5-10 years and would love to put another 100K miles on it so would it make more sense to just suck it up and stuff a brand new transfer case in there and have peace of mind for the next several years? Are there any years aside from 2010 that would be the same part number and work -- Im not sure if there were any changes year to year. Where best to buy if I go used/new? If new just have the shop order from any Volvo dealer?

Could it possibly be something else like a driveshaft?

I'm hoping its not the transmission, but if it is, what are my options then? The car seems to shift okay and drive okay. No lunging or lurching -- all the thumps and knocks are pretty consistent though seem less pronounced when coasting.

Bummed by this issue because the car is otherwise in absolutely fantastic shape and looks like an XC70 with 30,000 miles on it. I was planning to buy a piano for myself this Christmas for about the last 3yrs but that's going to have to be postponed for at least another year because I gotta feeling this one is gonna HURT. If the car was falling apart elsewhere that might change things but until the thumps and knocks arrived the car drove perfect. And its almost perfect inside and out aside from a cpl minor things.

I am not a mechanic so the DIY is out. I have too many hobbies as it is to make time to become a shadetree fixer.ions.

PEANUT GALLERY REPLY #1:

For a problem like this, one simple test is to jack it up onto jackstands (or a lift at a shop), then with the tranny in N, turn each wheel feeling/listening for any "play" sending torque backwards to the transmission. The entire drivetrain (including the 90 deg. angle gear) can be assessed this way. You have to turn both rear wheels at the same time to force the propeller shaft to turn the angle gear. Same with front wheels, except turning these force the tranny's output shaft to turn which should torque the rear wheels to turn. Granted, the forces are not nearly as great as while driving, but loose mechanical coupling can not only be felt, but with a stethoscope (car on lift) can be pinned down. Also, since the tranny is in N, it doesn't test for problem torque flow within the tranny.

This "free-wheeling" test isn't guaranteed to locate the problem, but sometimes it can, so it's worth a try.

PEANUT GALLERY REPLY #2:

I'm gonna says it's the right side engine mount. As it collapses you get metal to metal contact and it sends all kinds of weird noises thru out the car. Mine started as a rough idle feel when I engaged reverse. Then it sounded like the cats were breaking up inside and the exhaust was hitting the bottom of the car. In the end it sounded like the transmission was going to explode. We have a slight downhill leaving the neighborhood so it's light throttle/ coasting with a right hand curve at the bottom. That curve made the most racket. I finally changed the mount at 103k miles so you are definitely in the time range to change.

You can inspect it yourself. It's pretty visible. You can use a mirror to see the gap. You probably don't have any gap left.

MY REPLY UPDATE #2:

Welp after multiple attempts with chassis ears to locate the noise/problem its still sort of a mystery and $2500 later its about 30-40% resolved/reduced. We tore apart the transfer case and looked at that and the tranny. The transfer cases can and do go bad in these cars. Everything moves smooth and nothing is loose. So the bad news is I spent a ton of money to a dead end. The good news is at least I know the engine, tranny, and transfer case have been personally inspected and are probably good for another 50-100K miles. So the next time I hear a noise I will steer clear of those areas.

We ended up replacing the right CV axle and that's what seems to have reduced the noise by the percentage I stated. But there was no direct pinpointed area of the noise and I stopped short of replacing the left axle to see if that eliminated the problem together. Conventional wisdom might say if you replaced one side and the noise got noticeably reduced, then the remaining noise is likely the other side axle. But I took the car home and want to drive it a while and see if noises get better or worse before I keep spending money and throwing parts at the problem. What we know is the car is running properly, not unsafe to drive, and even when they replaced the right axle it wasnt an obvious weak point or very loose. Just a possible amount of play that might be the issue.

I also thought motor mounts like in the link above,, and it sort of sounds like those noises, but the sound is not on coasting. Its more on acceleration and turning. Again, that flags me as CV axle but lets drive the car over the winter and see what's what. This was my local indy shop. If things persist in the spring I might suck it up and go to the Volvo dealer with data points in hand and see if they can eliminate it completely. Id say the problem noise has gone from "should I keep driving it?" to mild annoyance. I don't hear the noise at all at 70mph straight down the highway.

The service cost included some other things like oil change, fuel rail sensor replacement, and while the car was apart we decided to replace a turbo gasket seal, so I did get some other boxes checked.

MY REPLY UDPDATE #3:

So I have an update on this. As I mentioned in the initial post my original hunch was bad CV Joints somewhere as the thumping occurred at slow speeds and turns but dissipated at higher speeds. Then you read my summary of the shop that looked at everything, found nothing obvious, then opened transfer case on a wild goose chase, found nothing, and went back to replacing a right front CV joint as a stab in the dark -- and it really didnt help the problem.

When I picked up the car from the shop after the work had been done, the noise was progressively better but not entirely eliminated. Over the course of the following week and now two months time its gotten worse to the point where I'm back to where I started or even with it making harsher and louder thumps. I'd have enough.

So I booked an appointment with the nearest Volvo dealer to have the mothership look and fix things for good. At this point I was thinking motor mounts and based on my ongoing description of what was recently done on the car and what wasn't the Volvo service person agreed that description sounded quite possible.

Dopped the car off this afternoon and took a new S60 loaner home. Got call back this afternoon and they say the new CV Joint that was put on the car (it was aftermarket which was fine b/c I chose that knowing after the transfer case rabbit hole, I wasn't throwing parts at problem they were not sure would fix it) was the wrong size and dimension:

[Other]: RECOMMEND RIGHT FRONT AXLE REPLACEMENT: VERIFIED CUSTOMER CONCERN ON A TEST DRIVE, FOUND RIGHT FRONT AXLE TO BE CREATING THE NOISE UPON FURTHER INSPECTION. INCORRECT LENGTH/DESIGN OF AFTERMARKETAXLE CAUSING CLEARANCE ISSUES

I mean seriously???? Whether its aftermarket or OEM it should still fit fine and if it didn't you'd know it and advise me immediately. What kind of level of incompetence is this? The Volvo tech indicated the noise likely dissipated (but not eliminated) after picking the car up from the original shop because the car was off compression from being on a lift. Over the next few days as the car was put on compression and the suspension resettled, the rubbing continued and got progressively worse to where it is today.

Basically I'm no better off today than I was when I began this escapade. The dealer told they'd be happy to sell me a new OEM CJ joint to solve the problem for $1,400 but it would make more sense to go back to the original shop and resolve the problem.

So where do you think I stand on this financially in terms of cost recovery for this kind of incompetence?

The Volvo diagnosis cost me $185.

The aftermarket CJ joint that's that wrong size for the car was $545.

The wild goose case opening up of the transfer case that was never necessary was $1200. Now, they did replace a turbo inlet gasket while this was out of the car and I was told you'd need to do much of this work to replace that gasket. But I don't think the gasket was a major major issue. It was more like "well we're in here, is there anything worth addressing before we put the transfer case back together?"

At the very least I think the original shop owes me the following:

- Reimbursement for the $185 Volvo charged me to diagnose their screwup
- Completely new CJ joint that's the proper size for the car, OR reimbursement for the wrong CV joint that's currently on the car ($545) and I will have it repaired elsewhere (Volvo)
- I think refunding HALF the cost of transfer case removal and inspection at the very least ($600 of the $1,200). I told them in my initial "screening of the problem" that I thought it may be CJ related, motor mounts, rotors etc) so going down this rabbit hole was way out in left field. It was more of a blind stab in the dark to try to resolve the thumps and noises. Since the turbo gasket was replaced and I did at least get some confirmation that the transfer case was in good working order with no repairs needed (which I've read they can go bad after 100K miles and I have 105K miles), there is some peace of mind knowing my transfer case should give me several more years of good performance. That probably has some honest value.

On the one hand the original shop should fix the problem. On the other hand Im now hesitant to allow to them to fix it because what assurance do I have that they properly can or will? They've sort of run out of road with me. This is a shop I have used many times over the past 20 years for my Porsches, BMWs, and now Volvo and generally had good results and are generally well-respected. But as the business has gotten bigger and expanded to more locations maybe they have gotten ahead of their skis. This was the first time I had taken a car to a closer "satellite" shop than the main shop further away I always went to.

Sometimes when folks say "I prefer taking it to the dealer", it's not the "stealership" everyone presumes. Time is money. Competence is also time and money. Peace of mind is time and money. This has cost me all three.

Digest and provide your best guidance, insight, and recommendation please.

[i am not a traitor]

Have the dealer replace the cv joint and confirm that the sound goes away. At the same time, save the axle. Once you confirm it was the bad axle, go back to indy showing proof that the part was wrong and then make your demands. If they balk at the satellite location, try corporate. If all fails, go to small claims court and give that a try.

[UDPride]

I dont think I want to take the existing CV axle off the car and replace it until the prior shop re-inspects their own work against the Volvo dealer tech's summary. Otherwise they might say since the axle they installed is now off the car how can I prove it was rubbing as the Volvo dealer described or the dealer didn't do a bunch of other things. Its been two months so they are unlikely to precisely remember "where we left things". I think they need to see and review their own work, recognize the problem is as bad if not worse, and then reconcile it with the Volvo tech's opinion/diagnosis that they solved the problem with the wrong sized part. I didnt care that it was aftermarket -- the aftermarket part should still be to OEM specs

If the prior shop takes the aftermarket CV axle off, replaces it with the CORRECT axle thats ALSO OEM (they eat this cost which is a $700 difference in what I paid for the aftermarket CV axle) and also reimburses me for the $200 it cost me to get Volvo to diagnose their mistake and actually fixes things, I could probably live with that. Having them eat the cost of the difference of the wrong aftermarket CV axle vs correct OEM sized axle would mitigate the $1200 fishing expedition they went on when they tore the transfer case apart for no reason.

I go back to the Volvo dealer in the morning to return the loaner and get my car back. I'll call the satellite office Monday where the car was originally serviced at the Indy Shop and advise we need a come to jesus meeting on how make this right. I have both overpaid for services entirely unnecessary due to incompetence, paid for a part that should have fixed the problem but didnt because its the wrong sized part, and was grossly inconvenience to fix their own oversights with other parties. Just driving to the damn Volvo dealer is a 2hr round trip.

[i am not a traitor]

I get it and agree with your thought process. Give the other shop a chance to provide an opportunity to look at it.

This is why I dream of owning a garage with a lift. I'd love to be able to throw the car up in the air and dig into it. With the resources online, you can pretty much fix anything.

Since I'll never be able to own a lift, I have to settle for using a friend who is a tech at a Lexus dealership to do the work I can't do in the garage. The downside there is he hates German cars. Lol

Good luck!

[fpena944]

I get it and agree with your thought process. Give the other shop a chance to provide an opportunity to look at it.

This is why I dream of owning a garage with a lift. I'd love to be able to throw the car up in the air and dig into it. With the resources online, you can pretty much fix anything.

Since I'll never be able to own a lift, I have to settle for using a friend who is a tech at a Lexus dealership to do the work I can't do in the garage. The downside there is he hates German cars. Lol

Good luck!

I had dreams of building a detached garage and adding a lift when I moved into our current home. Then I was told by our HOA that since I'm on a corner lot the setback for the front applies to the side. Dream killed...

But a good friend and I keep discussing the possibility of renting a warehouse space to put our car collection one day. But again, just a dream for now.