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By AKSteve
#77235
They certainly haven't for me. I got this pic from a CNET article titled, "2022 BMW M3 and M4 Competition xDrive are as quick as they are ugly." I've heard BMW came up with this design because the Chinese like cars with big grilles. I personally wonder if maybe China lied to them on purpose to try to hurt BMW. Or maybe just as a joke to see if they could get BMW to ruin an iconic car?

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By Fox_
#0
JDS968 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 pm It's a shame. They were all styled SO well in the 1990s, and completely went off the rails in the 2010s.
Mk4 supra, meme status aside, the coupe/hardtop with the clean lines stock is one of my favorite looking Nipponese cars.

The modern one, BMW internals with toyota styling, has to be one of the worst automotive combinations.

Japan has gone off the rails with the weird angular gundam robo car look.
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By AKSteve
#77352
lupo.sk wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:43 am Bmws have been off the ugly scale for me for a long time. My last bmw was an E39 and it’s going to stay that way.
I think I got one of the last good ones. A 2019 BMW 750i xDrive. They slapped an oversize grille on this model right after I bought it. Although I'll say the new 5 Series/M5 still looks good.

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By fpena944
#77353
It's not only BMW as it seems like every luxury sedan has a huge basking shark mouth. Not a fan myself...

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By Cuda911
#77511
fpena944 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:38 pm It's not only BMW as it seems like every luxury sedan has a huge basking shark mouth. Not a fan myself...

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Lexus is worse, will those stupid gaping maws.
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By Fox_
#77783
Cuda911 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:59 pm
fpena944 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:38 pm It's not only BMW as it seems like every luxury sedan has a huge basking shark mouth. Not a fan myself...

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Lexus is worse, will those stupid gaping maws.
Japanese car design has been hideous for years.
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By JDS968
#77927
No. Hate them.

I will forever want an E39 M5. Can't figure out what I'd do with it, but it's just too elegant to stop thinking about.
Fox_ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:40 pmJapanese car design has been hideous for years.
It's a shame. They were all styled SO well in the 1990s, and completely went off the rails in the 2010s.
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By Fox_
#77941
JDS968 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 pm It's a shame. They were all styled SO well in the 1990s, and completely went off the rails in the 2010s.
Mk4 supra, meme status aside, the coupe/hardtop with the clean lines stock is one of my favorite looking Nipponese cars.

The modern one, BMW internals with toyota styling, has to be one of the worst automotive combinations.

Japan has gone off the rails with the weird angular gundam robo car look.
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By JDS968
#77950
Fox_ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:41 pm
JDS968 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 pmIt's a shame. They were all styled SO well in the 1990s, and completely went off the rails in the 2010s.
Mk4 supra, meme status aside, the coupe/hardtop with the clean lines stock is one of my favorite looking Nipponese cars.
The FD RX-7, Mk4 Supra, and Z32 300ZX are all kind of tied for me. Even the ugly duckling 3000GT is a great looking sports car, especially compared to most everything from Japan today.

The 2nd gen MR2s and DSMs were pretty sleek as well.
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By fpena944
#77996
JDS968 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:22 am
Fox_ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:41 pm
JDS968 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 pmIt's a shame. They were all styled SO well in the 1990s, and completely went off the rails in the 2010s.
Mk4 supra, meme status aside, the coupe/hardtop with the clean lines stock is one of my favorite looking Nipponese cars.
The FD RX-7, Mk4 Supra, and Z32 300ZX are all kind of tied for me. Even the ugly duckling 3000GT is a great looking sports car, especially compared to most everything from Japan today.

The 2nd gen MR2s and DSMs were pretty sleek as well.
Agree with you on all of those and that the new Supra is uninspired and sort of boring to me compared to the monster of the past.

What the heck happened to designers in the past generation?
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By amdavid
#78006
Agree 100% with above observations. I like the FD Rx-7, it is the smallest of the other 2 mentioned.

90's styling was to the point, no real flowy cars. I tend to like rounded edges and an elegant yet simple flow. I'm thinking some of the 60's styling with modern performance and conveniences....you know, like a 911! :evilgrin: ....or if not Porsche round...here's a nice elegant, right sized grill coupe.

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By JDS968
#78007
driving-the-coda-tronca-alfa-romeo-sz-zagato.jpg
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By CBEJBL
#79314
I have an '18 M3 comp with a manual. After 3.5 years, am surprised how much I still like it. Not a fan of the new snout on these M cars, so my current M3 will likely be the last.

Another surprise is what the used market is commanding for these cars. I could feasibly get $55K+ for my M3!
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By Crisis
#79331
I blame Audi. By my recollection, they were the first major manufacturer to start putting really big grilles on their cars. The Japanese car makers took that idea and figured "if big grilles are good, then huge grilles must be better" I hate the goddamn things.
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By worf
#79398
Crisis wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:40 pm I blame Audi. By my recollection, they were the first major manufacturer to start putting really big grilles on their cars.
Really?

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By BeerBurner
#79420
Cuda911 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:59 pm Lexus is worse, will those stupid gaping maws.
When I see a new Lexus, I think of Predator.
lexus.jpg
predator.jpg
BB.
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By Crisis
#79717
worf wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:39 pm
Crisis wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:40 pm I blame Audi. By my recollection, they were the first major manufacturer to start putting really big grilles on their cars.
Really?

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Yeah, I thought of Rolls but didn't consider them a major manufacturer, simply based on volume. Rolls is now up to 3,000 - 4,000 per year, compared to 1.5 - 2 million annually by Audi. Now, if every manufacturer starts putting scissor doors on their cars, I will credit Lamborghini.
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By fastcars914
#82179
FlatSix wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:49 pm It’s hideous. And totally driven by the Chinese market.
This is what I've heard too, and I agree it is God awful. If it is only for the Chinese market, why couldn't they just have the new 4 series be Chinese market only and do a different front end for the rest of the world? I can't imagine a new grill & bumper would be that much of a cost when spread over literally the entire world minus China, plus it would likely increase sales. Or better yet, give customers the choice.

When AM came out with the new Vantage, so many owners disliked the front end that a company came out with a product to change out the front to look more like a DB10. I wonder if something similar will happen with the new 4 series?
Last edited by fastcars914 on Wed May 26, 2021 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By AKSteve
#82283
fastcars914 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:21 pm When AM came out with the new Vantage, so many owners disliked the front end that a company came out with a product to change out the front to like more like a DB10. I wonder if something similar will happen with the new 4 series?
There's a company already working on it. The company name is even funny: "Prior Design." Like, "we liked the old shit better."

BMW M4 Looks SOOO much Better with Prior Design Grille: https://www.dsf.my/2020/10/prior-design ... he-bmw-m4/
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By fpena944
#82310
fastcars914 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:21 pm
FlatSix wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:49 pm It’s hideous. And totally driven by the Chinese market.
This is what I've heard too, and I agree it is God awful. If it is only for the Chinese market, why couldn't they just have the new 4 series be Chinese market only and do a different front end for the rest of the world? I can't imagine a new grill & bumper would be that much of a cost when spread over literally the entire world minus China, plus it would likely increase sales. Or better yet, give customers the choice.

When AM came out with the new Vantage, so many owners disliked the front end that a company came out with a product to change out the front to like more like a DB10. I wonder if something similar will happen with the new 4 series?
Was speaking with a friend the other day and he went on to tell me he's thinking of the M4. Even mentioned the grille as one of the parts he likes about it! And nope, he's not Chinese so I guess some actually like the design.

What is most surprising for me is that he already owns a 5-series so you would think he'd be partial to that but nope, likes the new stuff!
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By Chaos
#89679
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Some car mags barely showed them. Ones I’ve seem don’t suck to bad on dark cars. My daily here has plenty of grill.
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By Voith
#94866
lupo.sk wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:43 am Bmws have been off the ugly scale for me for a long time. My last bmw was an E39 and it’s going to stay that way.
+1.

E39 was in my book pinacle of bmw's combination of usability, good looks and first class driving experience. Parts were garbage even on e39, but at least it had everything else.
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By milrad
#103949
Hate the enormous Bimmer grilles. I passed on a 7-series, just because they are so damn ugly, and bought an S560 instead.

I was reading an article on the new M4s today. Sad what they have become, and I still think the grille looks like crap.
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By AKSteve
#106751
Ewww....

Somehow I missed the introduction of this hideous beast, the BMW iX:


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By AKSteve
#114506
It's not European, but Toyota is jumping on the big grille bandwagon with the new Tundra. Blech!

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By fpena944
#114738
AKSteve wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:45 am Ewww....

Somehow I missed the introduction of this hideous beast, the BMW iX:


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I parked across from one of these at the airport a couple of days ago. Saw it and thought to myself, "WTF is that?!?"

Don't think I've seen a grill that big since those Duesenbergs at Amelia Island!
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By Johnny Five
#115436
Yikes. That is atrocious. BMW lost me awhile ago - when Bangle the Butcherer hit in the 2000’s it got nasty suddenly. Mid late 2000’s showed a complete course reversal with the mighty E90 M3 and highly tunable N54 135i of which I am the proud original owner. But then they took a downswing the next Gen on styling, more turbo more tech…. then they dropped off the cliff IMO. I lost track and quit following after they introduced even numbers.

In the old days it was simple - Audi had A/S 2,4,6,8 and BMW had 1/3/5/7.

“I want an M3 coupe please”

“they don’t make a coupe you have to get an M4”

“but I want an M3!”

/Seinfeld

Edit: the big grills on US and Toyota trucks are looking really nice to my eye.

Trivia: Audi started the trend when they merged the upper and lower grills from the b6 a4 and d2 a8 Gen to the b7 and d3 Gen.
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By fast_freddy
#118642
The "Bangle butt" is gorgeous in comparison to that hideous snout.
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By AKSteve
#137837
Thanks to a combination of the new design growing on me a bit and the fact that my new car will be black, I've decided to roll the dice and get a new M4 Competition Convertible w xDrive. Black Sapphire with red & black leather interior. Should be here the beginning of April and I'll post a real pic. This is what I could find online:

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By fpena944
#138248
AKSteve wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:55 pm Thanks to a combination of the new design growing on me a bit and the fact that my new car will be black, I've decided to roll the dice and get a new M4 Competition Convertible w xDrive. Black Sapphire with red & black leather interior. Should be here the beginning of April and I'll post a real pic. This is what I could find online:

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In black the snout is not quite as prominent. Should be a heck of a performance car. And if people say it's ugly well I know the feeling as I own a 996 and it gets no love! :biggrin:
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By AKSteve
#138250
fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:04 am In black the snout is not quite as prominent. Should be a heck of a performance car. And if people say it's ugly well I know the feeling as I own a 996 and it gets no love! :biggrin:
Hey! My first 911 was a 996 and I couldn't have been happier at the time that I bought it.

Anyway, check out the interior below, which is what I will mostly wind up seeing. Also, the M3/M4 is getting rave reviews despite being quite heavy and having a regular torque-converter automatic. MotorTrend tested a M3 Competition at 3.0 sec 0-60 and suggested this car's engine may be making more like 600hp rather than 503.

I'm really looking forward to this car. And I'm feeling good about the timing of my purchase because I've heard BMW is about to shut down its production line due to supply chain issues related to the Russian/Ukranian conflict. So it may get a lot harder to find a new BMW in the next few months.

2022 BMW M3 Competition PVOTY Review: Underrated, in More Ways Than One: https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-bmw-m3-competition-pvoty-review/

Even Jeremy Clarkson likes it. And he suggests getting the convertible version.

https://www.reddit.com/r/thegrandtour/c ... mpetition/


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By fpena944
#138281
AKSteve wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:21 am
fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:04 am In black the snout is not quite as prominent. Should be a heck of a performance car. And if people say it's ugly well I know the feeling as I own a 996 and it gets no love! :biggrin:
Hey! My first 911 was a 996 and I couldn't have been happier at the time that I bought it.

Anyway, check out the interior below, which is what I will mostly wind up seeing. Also, the M3/M4 is getting rave reviews despite being quite heavy and having a regular torque-converter automatic. MotorTrend tested a M3 Competition at 3.0 sec 0-60 and suggested this car's engine may be making more like 600hp rather than 503.

I'm really looking forward to this car. And I'm feeling good about the timing of my purchase because I've heard BMW is about to shut down its production line due to supply chain issues related to the Russian/Ukranian conflict. So it may get a lot harder to find a new BMW in the next few months.

2022 BMW M3 Competition PVOTY Review: Underrated, in More Ways Than One: https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-bmw-m3-competition-pvoty-review/

Even Jeremy Clarkson likes it. And he suggests getting the convertible version.

https://www.reddit.com/r/thegrandtour/c ... mpetition/


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If you would have told me years ago that an everyday coupe/convertible that still holds 4 people comfortably could do 0-60 in 3.0 seconds, I would have told you you're nuts!

I'm sure you'll have a good time with that one considering all the open space you have in your area to run it. :evilgrin:

How long ago did you get rid of your 996? Mine is in semi-retirement now and I only use it every 2-3 weeks. But with the warm weather coming it'll be nice to take it out and put the top down. The plan though is to rebuild the engine (almost 190k miles on it but still running strong), repaint, and recondition the interior and make it a lifelong keeper.
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By tooloud10
#138311
Agreed that the new grill doesn't look nearly as bad in a dark color. Over the years I have tossed around the idea of getting a newer M3/M4 but I worry that I will miss the NA V8 and the hardtop--I love that my E93 actually feels like a normal coupe with the top up.

But...that red interior is really sharp! Hopefully you don't have to wait forever to take delivery.
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By Crisis
#138437
Can't believe I'm saying this but that M4 looks pretty damn good in black. And the red interior is an added bonus. Great ride - Congrats!
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By amdavid
#138806
I know I shouldn't speak if I don't have something nice to say, however...

I'll bet that thing is a beast and will be a fun drive. However (not listening to my mother)...it's as ugly as RBG....and NONE of the extra large grills are growing on me....most look awkward!

It does appear that you secured one just in time.
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By ranger22
#138840
amdavid wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:51 pm I know I shouldn't speak if I don't have something nice to say, however...

I'll bet that thing is a beast and will be a fun drive. However (not listening to my mother)...it's as ugly as RBG....and NONE of the extra large grills are growing on me....most look awkward!

It does appear that you secured one just in time.
^x2.

Some people like fugly though. That red interior, wtf is going on with BMW? That looks like the interior of a Japanese wanna-be sports car. Perhaps something someone would dream up for Fast and the Furious.

Look at how flat and flabby the sides of that car have become. I never thought I’d say this, but I miss Banglized designs over these modern day disasters.

I hope you enjoy your ride AkSteve because it’s so ugly only an owner could love it.

Now, does anyone want to know how I REALLY feel about these new grills?
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By AKSteve
#138842
Thank you kind people for your wonderful words. I might be a sucker for red leather, but I love the interior. This car is a replacement for my 2015 Turbo Cab that I sold last fall when I needed cash to close a great deal on an Airstream trailer. I'll admit that red leather doesn't in any way match my personality, but I also always wanted a convertible in this classic silver/red leather interior. And so I'm happy that my new, fugly M4 will have something similar.

The turbo:

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El Jefe, I bought my 996 new in the spring of 2003. We were in a bit of a recession at the time and Porsche had overproduced cars and they were just sitting on lots all over the place. I put in an offer at Niello Porsche online without even talking to a salesperson and never expected them to take it, but they did. I picked it up at the Oregon/California border to avoid sales tax. I added a sports exhaust to it later and kept it for maybe 3 years? I believe I traded it in on an Audi A8L.

Turns out I still have a few items from that car, such as the original wheels. I need to check out what kind of shape they're in because I've seen those wheels recently on eBay for between $499 to $699. I also bought a Recaro/Porsche GT3 seat that I was going to install because I thought I needed more headroom, but I ended up not needing it. I've been meaning to turn it into an office chair, but I just never got around to doing so. It's graphite grey. I think I can maybe sell it for $3-4k on eBay if I ever get around to it.

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So I'm glad you guys mostly hate my car and think it looks hideous. My first choice was a GT4 RS or a Turbo S Cabriolet and I had a standing off at the local dealership to pick one up if they were to ever get an allocation. It just wasn't going to happen this year. I would've settled for a regular 911 cabriolet, but may salesman that I always work with told me he's only getting in one and that it's sold. Then that ferryboat sunk and my salesman quit. So I moved on. I checked with the Mercedes dealer and they said they weren't getting any AMG SL's this year. They're also marking every vehicle in stock up by $25k.

So what's a self-proclaimed car whore to do? I made the best deal I could for a car I can be happy with right now. And absolutely no one who has reviewed it thinks this car is making only 503HP. It'll smoke a C8 Corvette and other vehicles around that HP level. That intake is sucking lots of nice, cold air and the intercoolers/turbos are making good use of it.
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By ranger22
#138847
^^glad you took the heckling in stride. I forgot to include the emojis to soften the tone. On the bright side, driving a car that won’t win any beauty pageants may improve the looks of the occupants. Or does it work the other way? Is this why old guys like their Ferraris to be convertible?
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By amdavid
#138905
@AKSteve It's your :money_with_wings: :money_with_wings: do whatever floats your boat....who gives rats ass what we think anyway. As I said, it should be a blast to drive....and thanks for sharing in your/our obsession....you deliver on the eye candy, most of which is tasty.
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By AKSteve
#138988
Now I play the waiting game. I can tell from talking to a BMW Genius and giving them the VIN that my car is on a shipping vessel that is currently on its way to Chile and then up to California. But the vehicle was shipped without a radio and also some sort of PMA Control Unit that will need to be installed once it gets to the Vehicle Processing Center in Oxnard, CA. That should be around the 23 or 25th of this month. And then....who knows. Hopefully they'll have the required parts and my car will be in Alaska the first week of April.

I currently have another deal for a Ford Raptor that is in delivery limbo. It was "built" back in December, but has been awaiting shipping ever since. Neither the dealership or Ford Performance can tell me when the truck will arrive.

So, I haven't fully "purchased" anything yet. Grrrrrr... I hate the last 2 years.
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By fpena944
#139006
AKSteve wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:27 pm El Jefe, I bought my 996 new in the spring of 2003. We were in a bit of a recession at the time and Porsche had overproduced cars and they were just sitting on lots all over the place. I put in an offer at Niello Porsche online without even talking to a salesperson and never expected them to take it, but they did. I picked it up at the Oregon/California border to avoid sales tax. I added a sports exhaust to it later and kept it for maybe 3 years? I believe I traded it in on an Audi A8L.

Turns out I still have a few items from that car, such as the original wheels. I need to check out what kind of shape they're in because I've seen those wheels recently on eBay for between $499 to $699. I also bought a Recaro/Porsche GT3 seat that I was going to install because I thought I needed more headroom, but I ended up not needing it. I've been meaning to turn it into an office chair, but I just never got around to doing so. It's graphite grey. I think I can maybe sell it for $3-4k on eBay if I ever get around to it.
I'm actually a fan of red leather. I know a lot of people hate it but I love contrasting interiors and the red colors really pop in that regard.

As for the 996, impressive that you had it since new. Mine was six years old when I bought it so already had gone through a couple of owners.

Cool idea on the chair but those who are looking for one would kill to see it converted in that way!

Again best of luck with the new car. I hate that every industry is now using COVID or "supply chain issues" as their excuse for not meeting expectations. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.
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By AKSteve
#140099
Coming soon…. Der neue 7-Series. Which, I believe will be all-electric. And check out the 8K widescreen theater backseat option.


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By fpena944
#140113
AKSteve wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:47 pm Coming soon…. Der neue 7-Series. Which, I believe will be all-electric. And check out the 8K widescreen theater backseat option.


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Because there aren't enough distractions in vehicles yet! :cussing:
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By AKSteve
#146182
I guess the new, bigger grilles weren't prominent enough, so now they are also illuminated.

Der neue 7-Series:

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Gotta admit, it looks badass in black though:

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Nice wide-screen dash in the front and a wide-screen entertainment screen in the rear:

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