[Crumpler]

Link sent to me from a buddy.
In my naive mind, I assumed if you passed emissions the EPA had no oversight over the rest.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... -knocking/

[worf]

In my naive mind, I assumed if you passed emissions the EPA had no oversight over the rest.

Nope. Never’bin the case. *any* change from factory parameters for fuel, ignition, exhaust is a technical violation.

[Crumpler]

Then why did I get chastised constantly by a holier than thou windbag on the west coast who does stroker conversions?

[worf]

Then why did I get chastised constantly by a holier than thou windbag on the west coast who does stroker conversions?

I’m not sure of the context here and I stopped trying to get in other people’s heads a long time ago.

[maddog2020]

the whole industry realizes it's on a tipping point. It's one of the reason's I took my website offline, and deleted a shit ton of stuff on TOS, and sent them a demand letter to delete my data per CCPA & GDPR. (they don't know where I live) but the fines are high enough the bar for proving it is non existent) Its getting harder to find a place that will tune a street car, and one of the reasons I purchased my ECU from a dealer in NZ.

[Crumpler]

Well. It’s a bummer. Sounds like the party’s over.
There’s no power lobbying group to advocate and the EPA will only have more resources and time to play wack-a-mole as we head toward an electric conversion.

[maddog2020]

I think this article is pretty accurate and the epa is going after low hanging fruit, like he said small shops selling conversion boxes that plug into late model cars. With aftermarket ecu's it could be for a boat for all anyone knows.

[fpena944]

The worst part about this witch hunt is that as ordinary consumers transition to EVs the impact of the remaining hobbyist cars will be minimalized. So why they can't just let things be and focus on where the majority of the market will be is beyond me.

I also feel the same when we look at low volume manufacturers like Ferrari or Bently. Now why would it matter if they discontinue their ICE vehicles or not? These are cars that barely cover any miles over the year so what difference does it really make.

Oh well, when I'm leader of the world we'll change it all.

[Crumpler]

Further questions:

Aftermarket modifications, in compliance with emissions for the sake of argument, produce what typically? More horsepower more fuel consumption?

How is this different than when a platform with similar horsepower and fuel consumption rolls out of the factory as bone stock? One is illegal and one is legal in the eyes of a regulatory agency?

There is some type of algorithm at the state level, at least here, that taxes hp based on scale. I believe it is accessed on sales tax. Is that the difference, that you have averted potential tax revenue? If so, it would be at the state level and not federal level so why would the epa be so interested?
What am I missing.

[maddog2020]

I also wanted to note that the EPA might be following the ATF playbook. Go after shops/manufacturers and the domino effect of people not wanting to get wrapped up in trouble severely impacts the market, beyond the possibilities of the current law enforcement capabilities.

[worf]

One is illegal and one is legal in the eyes of a regulatory agency?

Correct. The manufacturer has jumped through the regulatory hoops and has forked out the baksheesh to the bureaucracy for the approval.

The big tuners (Cobb etc.,) are going, or have already gone, through the expense of getting their tunes and mods CARB certified. (Last time I cared about the cost - 10-ish years ago - if you had your shit together, ducks lined up, and passed the first time through, you could look forward to about a $20k expense for each variation for CARB cert. Not including the time for your labor or outside ‘pre-testing’ to get your ducks herded.)

Obviously, it should be possible to take a modified vehicle to a testing station once per year to “prove” that your modifications obey the spirit of the law.

But, the goal isn’t to get the law obeyed in spirit. The goal is control.

[XR4Tim]

Yep. If it were really about clean air, the only thing that would matter is what's coming out of the tailpipe. A well-tuned vehicle, regardless of power output, will be as close to complete combustion as possible, and have low hydrocarbon output.

[N_Jay]

Yep. If it were really about clean air, the only thing that would matter is what's coming out of the tailpipe. A well-tuned vehicle, regardless of power output, will be as close to complete combustion as possible, and have low hydrocarbon output.

From what I understand evaporative emissions are actually greater the combustion emissions for many cars.

[worf]

From what I understand evaporative emissions are actually greater the combustion emissions for many cars.

You refer to evaporative emissions from cars?

Apropos “gross polluters” … IIRC, at one point CA had (semi-?)mobile “sniffing” stations that could sniff-out and photograph the license plate of a “gross polluter.” A GP can put out 1000+ times the pollution of a ‘good’ car. I think CA canceled the initiative ‘cause it unduly targeted poor transgendered pregnant disadvantaged native unicorns of color or some such shit.

I’d be happy with gestapo-like mobile sniffers if it would actually result in more freedom. But, of course it wouldn’t.

I’m reminded of this because today I was out and about and saw a big-assed pickup in the opposing lane trailing a thick-ish cloud of gray smoke (burning more oil then gas.) That fuck get’s to drive around legally but any ‘modified’ car is technically in violation even it it reads 0/0/0 on a 3-gas analyzer.

[Tony]

From my favorite band..
The song Red Barchetta comes to mind....

"A brilliant red Barchetta, from a better, vanished time. Fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar! Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime ..."

[Tony]

I was reading an article on "carbon neutral gasoline production".

yup.. Coming to a station near you...priced accordingly so they can keep there gross polluters "OFF" the road. You can drive, but is gonna cost ya.
I feel sorry for the grand kids and greats.

[Sazerac]

Crumpler, thanks for posting. Good read.

This almost belongs in the Dive Bar. Yet another reason why I fully supported Trump's war on the EPA.

[linderpat]

Progressives are a cancer.

[Crumpler]

Sorry fellas, I don’t know how to say this except to say it. I’m a Bush republican, and apparently a RHINO because I can’t stomach the current Maga clown car. It’s just not a recipe for (GOP) success. That’s why I stay out of the dive bar.

[maddog2020]

Sorry fellas, I don’t know how to say this except to say it. I’m a Bush republican, and apparently a RHINO because I can’t stomach the current Maga clown car. It’s just not a recipe for success. That’s why I stay out of the dive bar.

sometimes you gotta ride in the clown car especially if its the only one headed in the right direction. you may not like how you get there, but you gotta get moving in the right direction somehow.

[worf]

Sensible laws.

I wish.

I’m reminded of a time I was driving in Germany. (A Germany that more-or-less no longer exists probably.)

I was driving a BWM 525 on a twisty mountain road in Bavaria.

I was trying to drive at the speed limit indicated on the signs.

I couldn’t do it. Apparently, those limits had been set by Walter Röhrl.

The were Speed Limits. You couldn’t actually go faster and you could only approach them asymptotically. They were the German mountain road equivalent of The Speed of Light.

Sensible laws. Sigh.

[linderpat]

Sorry fellas, I don’t know how to say this except to say it. I’m a Bush republican, and apparently a RHINO because I can’t stomach the current Maga clown car. It’s just not a recipe for (GOP) success. That’s why I stay out of the dive bar.

Well I'm no Trump fan either, don't think we can survive 4 years of him after the way his term ended, but also don't know how we can continue with what we have. It's all hopeless right now. The sad thing is, I don't think the repubs would elect Reagan if he ran today, and the dems would not elect JFK if he ran today. The whole apparatus has moved to places I hardly recognize. So, hop in the shark, put on some golden oldies of your choice, and let er rip through the country twisties! And as Billie Joel sang, "...forget about life for awhile..."

[Crumpler]

Oh boy.
I was walking through local big box.
The trend to EV’s is extrapolated to small engines as well?
Another wrinkle I didn’t have the foresight to see. Four figures plus gets you a push mower with (I would assume debatable battery life).
Yikes.

[maddog2020]

sadly the average homeowner isn't smart enough to keep a gas lawnmower running anymore.

[Ed Scherer]

sadly the average homeowner isn't smart enough to keep a gas lawnmower running anymore.

Funny you should mention that. I've been doing most of our mowing with an old (90s, probably?) Toro commercial push mower that I inherited from my dad. That Suzuki 2-cycle engine is a beast. Barely notices even tall, dense grass. I'll keep that thing going as long as I can.

[Crumpler]

Exactly.
Honda push motor 22 years and no sign of slowing down. The riding mower has 220 hours on it.
How many batteries to dispose of does that equate to?;)
And yes, I think I’m one of two people in the neighborhood that cut their own grass.

[fpena944]

Exactly.
Honda push motor 22 years and no sign of slowing down. The riding mower has 220 hours on it.
How many batteries to dispose of does that equate to?;)
And yes, I think I’m one of two people in the neighborhood that cut their own grass.

Sadly Honda has announced that they will no longer manufacture gas mowers anymore. I've had mine for about 15+ years, guess it's a keeper.

I have a battery lead blower that my wife bought me as a present. I like it but the battery doesn't last as long as advertised, it maybe goes for half the time then I have to charge it. I think you only get full use out of it if you keep it at the lowest setting.

[Ed Scherer]

I have a battery lead blower that my wife bought me as a present. I like it but the battery doesn't last as long as advertised, it maybe goes for half the time then I have to charge it. I think you only get full use out of it if you keep it at the lowest setting.

I'm grateful that I only have to deal with tree debris and grass. No lead deposits, which I'm sure would tax even a gasoline-powered blower.

[fpena944]

I have a battery lead blower that my wife bought me as a present. I like it but the battery doesn't last as long as advertised, it maybe goes for half the time then I have to charge it. I think you only get full use out of it if you keep it at the lowest setting.

I'm grateful that I only have to deal with tree debris and grass. No lead deposits, which I'm sure would tax even a gasoline-powered blower.

Didn't get it at first but that's what I get for typing on my phone while not really paying attention!