8 cylinder front engine iconic vehicle
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By h2pmr
#97825
many years ago a friend of mine did some work for me and asked if he could have the S4 engine block i was going to throw out as payment to make a coffee table, which was a good deal for me.

fast forward to last week and i asked him how the S4 coffee table was doing, his reply was along the lines of what do women know about what looks good as a coffee table, so the block has been in his garage untouched ever since, he needed the space so i got it back for £20.

so its now on an engine stand, clean and just needs building.

it will never be good enough to be put in a car so i will be building an "exploded" S4 engine.

will include heads, cams and chains, cam sprockets, rocker covers, intake manifold, throttle body, coolant bridge, sump, exhaust manifolds, water pump, crank pulley and sump + a few other small castings.

all held in exploded position with either longer bolts or threaded bar and nuts either side of the casting.

just need to work out what looks good spacing wise and either get a local machine shop to cut the coolant bridge and intake manifold right down the middle so can bolt it straight up from the head mounts or make N shaped brackets to hold them in mid air.

wanted to test fit the heads but hardware store did not have any threaded bar with the head bolt thread, so test fitting water pump pictured, the gap between water pump and block is 1.5" now, what do you guys think of spacing, more or less?

with it all just bolted together, it can be easily stripped down for powder coating and transport

depending on how it turns out it will be the base for a large coffee table or a folly.
only time will tell

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#97834
a very quick mock up, still needs a lot of cleaning and getting the spacing looking right and equal for all components + more threaded bar but its the general look i had in my minds eye :thumbup:
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By worf
#97863
Great concept. Can’t wait to see the final product.
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By h2pmr
#97873
Majestic Moose wrote:That will be very cool.
Image
before i started this that was the only picture i could find of an exploded engine, so thought it time for an S4 version.

and i have just realised that what i thought were just black threaded bar on the above picture are actually steel tubes that slides over the threaded bar and so can be tightened down to compress the parts together and give better rigidity.

i was just going to use a nut either side of the components, as i my pictures

steel tube added to the shopping list

cheers
Phil
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By Geza-aka-Zombo
#97888
Can't wait to see it completed. Best of luck.
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By h2pmr
#98189
local hardware store has perfect size of tubing to go over the threaded bars, but had to order the threaded bar for the head bolt thread.
i think i have found a machine shop who can cut the coolant bridge in half so i can bolt each half straight up from the head.

but the intake manifold is staying in one piece, with the side covers exploded out so the innards of the intake can be seen.

forget the crank sprocket in the picture, i got it out a box of parts and then realized no crank fitted.....

so should get a little further at the weekend.

cheers
Phil
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By linderpat
#98235
wow, that's really cool! Someday when you tire of it, one of us 928 addicts will pay stoopid money for it :biggrin: :bigok:
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By h2pmr
#98884
tubing over the threaded bar looks far better than just a nut either side of the parts.
but by the time its finished and i have split the 2 half's of the block it will be about 4ft tall
so will need to make a stand out of box section and bolt it through the engine mount holes.

looking more like a folly but am enjoying doing it.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#99127
one side getting close to full mock up, just need to cut the threaded bar to a better length so as not much goes past the nuts.
gapping wise i started with a 90mm gap between block and heads, and am using a 30mm rule- all gaps between castings have to be a multiple of 30mm.

camshafts to head gap is 60mm, rocker cover to head is 150mm.
i tried to keep all gaps 60mm but rocker cover looked to close to cams.
so with the 30mm rule there is actually some symmetry to it when looking at it.

still need to set the cam chain timing but they do turn nice and freely :thumbup:

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#99223
anybody know what the gap is between the block and the lowest point of the throttle body housing?
cheers
Phil
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By worf
#99313
h2pmr wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:44 am anybody know what the gap is between the block and the lowest point of the throttle body housing?
The thickness of a knock sensor plus the thickness of a M8 hex bolt head plus the thickness of three red hairs…
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By h2pmr
#99328
worf wrote:
h2pmr wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:44 am anybody know what the gap is between the block and the lowest point of the throttle body housing?
The thickness of a knock sensor plus the thickness of a M8 hex bolt head plus the thickness of three red hairs…
i thought i would need to bolt the throttle housing to the block to give it rigidity, but it took on a life of its own when i made the mounts for the whole intake out of thin mild steel strips, which hold it together more rigidly than i thought

even using the original rubbers and washers that hold the intake to the heads, and original rubbers and washers for the rocker covers

now it is actually coming together quite nicely, just the coolant bridge, water pump, cambelt tensioner and sump to go.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#99428
nearly there.
yes i know picture quality is crap, will get some better versions when its done.
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By h2pmr
#99448
Thanks Bertrand and a slightly more in focus picture.
so the top end is now done.

next job will be to disassemble it all, cut all excess threaded bar off, get the heads skimmed and send it all to a media blaster's.
then take the block off the engine stand, split it, make spacers for the 2 half's of the block, spacer the sump and make a box section frame to mount it all on.
then disassemble that send all that to the media blasters and see what it looks like when it all comes back.

depending on how it all looks will depend its final finish, all powder coated silver or left natural and just lacquered. but i have a yearning to powder coat the exhaust manifolds red

so will be a few weeks before any real progress.

no good folly's were finished quickly :thumbup:

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#101580
all parts now removed and boxed up to go to the media blasters, this weekend i hope.
block now split and the lower section is resting on the original studs.
i guess these were fitted with loctite from the factory as they don't want to move so will need to take it to work and use some heat on it.
looking at the S2 exploded engine picture they have left all the original studs in and just fitted longer ones and tubes to some of them so i think i will do the same, which also saves fighting to get them all out.

this weekend should be an ideal time to start and fabricate the frame it will be mounted to, should be able to use the holes for the original engine mount position, well thats the plan anyway

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#102753
finally got all the studs out that hold the 2 half's together, Porsche used a lot of locktite when they put them in as needed to heat the alloy with a blow torch and with 2 nuts locked together on the stud they came out.
at least they have steel threaded inserts so no damage to the threads.

i put the outer studs back in just for show and added longer threaded bar to the end journals and nuts and washers to hold it all as a solid unit, just with a 90mm gap between.

40mm box section just resting on block is the start of the frame, one at either end will make it nice and stable, was going to use the original engine mount holes but it just was not going to look right.

as this is the stand the actual sump will be off the ground so just hanging down so can be easily secured with only 4 threaded bars

difficult to see how its going to look from the pictures as its upside down at the moment, but its coming together how i envisaged it, so far....

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#103677
bottom end now finished :thumbup:
just need the legs welding on and a thin brace between them, weld a square plate to the legs and all then ready for the media
blasters.
i had a lot of spare head bolt washers...
still waiting for the top end back from them but no more tube and threaded bar needs cutting :rockon:

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#106263
finally got all the top end parts back from the media blasters.
i was thinking about powder coating them all but then i would have to paint the securing nuts, washers and bolt heads , which might not be the same shade of silver.
so as a test piece i have spray painted the coolant bridge and top hose outlet with 3 coats of silver brake caliper paint and am very happy with the finish.

next i want to put gloss black heat shrink over the spacer tubes that hold the top hose outlet to the coolant bridge and then bolt it together.
then i can mask up the tubes, spray the bolt heads so the whole assembly will be the same colour just with gloss black tubes.
if it works and looks good thats how the rest of the build is going to happen.
hopefully.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#106632
gloss black heat shrink on, but bolt heads still chrome.
mask up heat shrink.
paint bolt heads and give a final even coat over everything- needs a second coat just to be sure its all coated

need to let paint dry before removal of masking,.
i was worried if i just painted the tubes gloss black the masking might pull the paint off.

time consuming these folly's, but should look quite good, hopefully.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#106963
coolant bridge finished :drink:
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By linderpat
#107250
this is coming together nicely!
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By h2pmr
#107375
support frame now fully welded together and at the powder coaters along with the bottom half of the engine to be media blasted.
now just a case of cleaning everything for a final time and panting it + a lot of heat shrink to fit over the tubes.

Our body shop said they could lacquer it to make it even more shiny and durable, or as they jokingly? said, easier to wipe the dust off as its just a pointless folly...

and i was going to skim the heads but thought i would paint them as they are-(exhaust ports are the same colour as the intake just the shadow from the flash) so this project could also be used as a learning tool to show what happens if you do not change the coolant on a regular basis.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#108670
everything now back from the media blasters, but frame will be another week before its powder coated.
everything now fully cleaned and starting to paint it.

got our body shop to lacquer the cam belt tensioner as a test to see what it looks like and it made it look like shiny silver plastic, not a good look, so its all staying satin silver.

the under side of the block is now fully sprayed silver.

and i am now seeing if i can get a good enough finish of gloss red inside the exhaust manifolds, if all goes well i will try and get the exhaust ports of the head done the same, which should then tie in with the red PORSCHE lettering thats going on the rocker covers.

still need to spray the outside of the exhaust manifolds silver.

its getting there.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#108846
lots of masking up and 1 manifold is 99% finished, just need to spray some of the silver into a small container and use a fine brush to cover the red that got under the masking tape and what looks like a run in the outlet is a what looks like a blob of weld from when it was made.
but i am happy with the overall result :rockon:

still thinking about doing the outside of the bores in blue to simulate water, but overall it might just look too multi coloured.
maybe.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#110092
mounting frame still at the powder coaters so just getting all the engine parts sprayed up, which includes any mounting bolt heads etc.

the rocker covers had a lot of pitting and corrosion on them, so rubbed them down which made them a lot better now, but some pitting is just to deep as can be seen

managed to mask up the heads and get a nice even coat of the same red used up the exhaust manifolds.

not going to spray the outsides of the bores blue, very hard to get an even coat without getting runs in it.

its getting there :thumbup:

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#111430
frame is ready at the powder coaters so should get that mounted this weekend, was just checking the parts i would need to take to work to build it and noticed a bloody hedgehog had decided to start to hibernate between the heads i had on the floor.
my garage door is only open when i am in the garage so it must have sneaked in very quietly and thought the bubble wrap and S4 heads were better than the outside world.

he is now under a nice thick hedge in the garden, so he should be ok.
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By worf
#111435
Obviously just admiring your work.
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By h2pmr
#111632
only half the frame was ready at the powder coaters, so will have to wait another 2 weeks before i am going to get the rest of it :poop:

but gives me a chance to finish off the painting of the rest of the parts.

intake now fully finished and looks quite good, all bolt heads sprayed the same colour and even got a light covering inside the throttle housing as the throttle butterfly still opens.
had to put the rubber cover over the flappy pivot on the top of the manifold to finish it off, but need to remember not to press on it or i guess the paint will crack.

if the rest of the build turns out the same it should all look quite good.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#111641
i think :hitfan:

i broke 3 S4 of engines a many years ago - which is where all the parts for this project came from.
i cleaned, oiled and then wrapped all 12 camshafts in cling film, so fast foward to a few weeks ago, i get 4 camshafts out to fit 1 engine, and spray them silver for this project, i did not check the 928 numbers on them....

can someone confirm i have just sprayed a GT camshaft silver :hiding: :puking:
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By worf
#111648
h2pmr wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:45 am can someone confirm i have just sprayed a GT camshaft silver :hiding: :puking:
Ummm… yup. Looks like you did.
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By h2pmr
#111682
thanks Worf
just to confirm 271, 272,273 and 274 casting numbers on these camshafts are GT and 291,292,293 and 294 are S4 camshafts?

and very luckily i have now found the other 3 GT cams as about 2 years ago a friend from work was leaving to start his own mobile mechanic business and i gave him the first camshaft i picked out of the box + a cam sprocket as he wanted to make a bedside lamp out of one
and an S4 engine i broke had GT cams in it :rockon:

now to paint removal, fingers crossed.

cheers
Phil
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By worf
#111695
h2pmr wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:11 pm thanks Worf
just to confirm 271, 272,273 and 274 casting numbers on these camshafts are GT and 291,292,293 and 294 are S4 camshafts?
My earliest post was based upon a before-sufficient-coffee review of the WSM.

The *casting* number is insufficient to distinguish the cams. You need the whole part number.

GT cams are 271-274.01
SE/CS cams are 291-293.06 and 294.05
88+ S4 are 271-274.00
GTS cams are 271-274.03
Pre-'88 32v cams 291-294.2/4/8/9

The actual last 5 digits of the part number should be on there somewhere.
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By h2pmr
#111703
i just googled the number cast in the camshaft 9281052740R and it comes up with a thread on RL about a guy with this casting number on his GT cam.
the only other number cast into the cam is on the other end of it and is 5442
lobe height below if that helps
cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#112046
the actual type of grind of the camshafts -S4 or GT- is stamped onto the end of the camshaft, i guess after the grind of the lobes.
00 =S4
01 =GT
mine are 00 so back on the exploded engine they go.

cheers
Phil
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By Gary Knox
#112051
This completed project may be destined for the Porsche Museum! There was a very similar 'exploded engine' display of the 12 cylinder 917 engine on display there about 8 years ago when toured the museum. The only 928's represented on the museum floor at that time were the polished aluminum body model and the final GTS model. It would be nice to have a beautiful display of this engine!!
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By h2pmr
#112916
Gary Knox wrote:This completed project may be destined for the Porsche Museum! There was a very similar 'exploded engine' display of the 12 cylinder 917 engine on display there about 8 years ago when toured the museum. The only 928's represented on the museum floor at that time were the polished aluminum body model and the final GTS model. It would be nice to have a beautiful display of this engine!!
i need to get to the Museum someday, maybe next year, if only it would fit in hand luggage i would see if they were interested in it :thumbup:

finally got everything painted, last exhaust manifold mount pictured, only used 14 tins of 400ml satin silver and a lot of masking tape....

still no sign of the frame, maybe next weekend.

cheers
Phil
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By h2pmr
#114565
finally got all the frame parts back from the powder coaters.
wheels not actually part of the final piece, just fitted to move it around, without the wheels the sump still sits 30mm off the ground
so far it has turned out better than i could have hoped.
when its all finished i need to do a video walk round.

cheers
Phil
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By oups59
#114671
Looks great :thumbup:
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By h2pmr
#114839
all finished :jumper: :jumper: :jumper:

with the wheels on it stands 4ft high.

turned out pretty good i think.



cheers
Phil
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By linderpat
#114860
Bravo! That is nothing short of spectacular Phil. What a great piece of garage art :bowdown:
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By Bertrand Daoust
#114962
Soooooooo NICE! :thumbup:
Really, really cool garage art for sure.

Where do you plan to put it?

It deserves the best place in the nicest garage!
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By Gary Knox
#115114
Beautifully done. Congrats on such a great result. AND - your garage looks like "one of the nicest garages" (referencing Bertrand's post).

By the way - intrigued by the car on the right side of those last pictures. Almost resembles a '70's BMW e3, but the wheel caps don't look right. What is it?
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By h2pmr
#115152
Thanks Gents, it has turned out far better than i thought it would at the start of the project.
as with all projects attention to detail is key, picture below shows i sprayed some spare paint i had into the lids to touch over the marks on the bolt heads after tightening them.
and total cost of JUST the hardware, nuts, bolts, tubing frame, paint etc was £771.

these folly's don't come cheap.

Bertrand Daoust wrote:Soooooooo NICE! :thumbup:
Really, really cool garage art for sure.

Where do you plan to put it?

It deserves the best place in the nicest garage!
not my garage, but a "spare" garage we have at my place of work.
i was going to put it on ebay, as i but my boss saw it and said he would put it in the Prestige showroom at another site we have, his words were " will look ideal with a POA price board next to it"
Gary Knox wrote:Beautifully done. Congrats on such a great result. AND - your garage looks like "one of the nicest garages" (referencing Bertrand's post).

By the way - intrigued by the car on the right side of those last pictures. Almost resembles a '70's BMW e3, but the wheel caps don't look right. What is it?
Its a V6 Ford Zodiac a UK only model from the 70's in need of restoration, the car dollies under the front wheels due to owner having lost the keys years ago.
hopefully i will not get involved in it, 70's UK cars sadly just rot away

cheers
Phil
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