[tooloud10]

So...I had posted on TOS about getting a camper and she's not letting off the gas on this. I actually thought I could put the whole thing to rest by pointing out that our tow vehicle ('06 Land Rover) isn't ideal, but she didn't flinch and said she missed my old '15 F150 and that we should just get a new one if I had concerns about towing with the Land Rover.

I've always wanted a Raptor and I think there are a few owners here, so I'm wondering about towing. My previous F150 was rated at 12k lbs towing and I approached that a few times and felt reasonably comfortable. The Raptor has an 8k lb tow rating but a much softer suspension--any concerns about towing a 4k lb camper with one?

Seems like a non-issue but every time I turn around it feels like there's something new to be concerned about. Our LR3 has been pretty bulletproof but I'm becoming leery of relying on a 14-year-old Land Rover towing anything in the rural midwest and will probably just leave it as my kid's around town car.

Any thoughts?

[Fox_]

Ought to be a ton cheap on the market after the O&G crash. :lol:

[tooloud10]

Ought to be a ton cheap on the market after the O&G crash. :lol:

Ha, I probably don't want any of them that were owned by those guys. And really, the lack of depreciation is one of the reasons I want a Raptor over a regular F150.

[AKSteve]

I have a '17 Raptor and it doesn't really enjoy hauling or towing stuff. It's an off-road racing truck. I had to make a delivery and filled the bed up with about 500+lbs of stuff and it looked like the suspension was about to bottom out.

[Fox_]

^^^I guess it's like the old Lightnings.

Neat truck that's terrible at being a truck.

[tooloud10]

I have a '17 Raptor and it doesn't really enjoy hauling or towing stuff. It's an off-road racing truck. I had to make a delivery and filled the bed up with about 500+lbs of stuff and it looked like the suspension was about to bottom out.

Fuck, I appreciate that but it's exactly what I didn't want to hear. I know I should just get a boring old truck or Suburban or something, but I just hate driving appliances. My DD is a company provided Explorer and I just hate it--I haven't driven it more than a few hundred miles since March.

[Van1]

Tool, like I said on RL, it’s all about what the payload sticker says in the door jamb. Out of all the F-150s the Raptor has the crappiest payload. You’d probably be just fine with a 4K lb camper though.

[tooloud10]

Tool, like I said on RL, it’s all about what the payload sticker says in the door jamb. Out of all the F-150s the Raptor has the crappiest payload. You’d probably be just fine with a 4K lb camper though.

Thanks, I certainly appreciated the advice even if I didn't mention it over there. I suppose anything with a 500 lb tongue weight is going to make the rear sag about as much as AKSteve's truck does in his picture.

[SidViscous]

I have a '17 Raptor and it doesn't really enjoy hauling or towing stuff. It's an off-road racing truck. I had to make a delivery and filled the bed up with about 500+lbs of stuff and it looked like the suspension was about to bottom out.

Fuck, I appreciate that but it's exactly what I didn't want to hear. I know I should just get a boring old truck or Suburban or something, but I just hate driving appliances. My DD is a company provided Explorer and I just hate it--I haven't driven it more than a few hundred miles since March.

Well I will say this. If you go out and get yourself a 2000-2006 Suburban, or preferably a Yukon, you may consider it an appliance. But it will tow the shit out of that camper. And usually with campers your doing long drives. It's a great vehicle for a long driver.

You can get one of that era for pretty cheap, and like I said, they are bulletproof. Cruise on the highway, carry a ton of shit. And if you get into an accident, your the last to know.

Just dropped my 05 off for new Rocker panels. When that is done I'm pulling it in and doing the brakes complete all 4 corners. Rotors, calipers etc, probably re-do the brake lines too.

After that new carpet, and have to do something with the seats.

Then it will be good for another 300K miles.

[JDS968]

Get a 2003-2006 (5 speed) Land Cruiser 100. It has all the luxury, comfort, and practicality of your Land Rover, better towing capability and safety, and it is indestructible.

[rlm328]

Gets some air bags (get the compressor option) for the rear and be done with.

https://www.suspensionconnection.com/74582-f150.html

[Erik N]

I got your Bitch right here.
Beat the crap out her over the last dozen years. She does not like highway speeds anymore. At 60mph, she is still good.
Great truck for climbing the local mountains, and sleeping in the back, snug as a bug.
PS, She is wearing Montana plates now.

[Airkuhl]

Fuck, I appreciate that but it's exactly what I didn't want to hear. I know I should just get a boring old truck or Suburban or something, but I just hate driving appliances. My DD is a company provided Explorer and I just hate it--I haven't driven it more than a few hundred miles since March.

Hmm, I tow my UTV which is over 2K lbs and about 300 tongue weight with no issues at all. I know that's not that heavy but it does it effortlessly. Lots of folks on the Raptor forums use them to tow race car trailers without any issues.
It's definitely not a heavy duty pickup truck and it only has a 5.5ft bed, but for me, 99% of the time it's just fine as a "truck". And the fun factor more than makes up for the rest.

Towing With a Ford F-150 Raptor
The entire point of this review was to see how well the Raptor would handle a trailer. And frankly, it was the part of the week-long review that had me the most nervous. My enclosed trailer had behaved well behind my 5.0L Lariat and a 3.5L EcoBoost XLT, but the softer spring rates and Fox shocks on the Raptor are decidedly tuned for off-road driving first.

Nonetheless, the Raptor, in SuperCrew cab size and wheelbase, is rated for 8,000 lbs of trailer if a weight distribution hitch is used (5,000 if not). So, I hooked up my trailer, chained up the weight distribution bars, and set off on a Saturday to see how the truck would behave with a big sail in the wind behind it. The trailer has a 20′ box and 4′ V-nose, coming in around 27′ total length and 6,500 lbs loaded.


To my surprise, the Raptor handled the trailer with ease. The rear exhibited slight sag, though lowering the hitch ball could have alleviated some of it. Ford claims the shocks remain at “normal” stiffness in Tow/Haul mode, but the ride and chassis control were excellent, even at highway speeds with 18-wheelers passing by, creating air pockets to disturb the trailer. Power, of course, is always on tap with the High Output EcoBoost V6, and the 10-speed pairs well against a turbocharged engine.

Some quick forum searching reveals Raptor owners who tow frequently may add aftermarket airbags to the rear suspension to help with the squat. In my case, I didn’t feel it necessary and had complete confidence with the trailer in tow. A larger trailer than mine, however, may not be controlled with as much ease.

https://outmotorsports.com/2019/10/ford ... f-roading/

[tooloud10]

Get a 2003-2006 (5 speed) Land Cruiser 100. It has all the luxury, comfort, and practicality of your Land Rover, better towing capability and safety, and it is indestructible.

I don't hate that idea, but she will. Does it have a heated steering wheel? :D

Gets some air bags (get the compressor option) for the rear and be done with.

https://www.suspensionconnection.com/74582-f150.html

Interesting--that might be worth the investment.

I got your Bitch right here.
Beat the crap out her over the last dozen years. She does not like highway speeds anymore. At 60mph, she is still good.
Great truck for climbing the local mountains, and sleeping in the back, snug as a bug.
PS, She is wearing Montana plates now.

I hear you, but that's how we've been using the LR3 for the last few years. She's pushing for something 'nicer' and I'm looking for less drama in a vehicle for once.

Hmm, I tow my UTV which is over 2K lbs and about 300 tongue weight with no issues at all. I know that's not that heavy but it does it effortlessly. Lots of folks on the Raptor forums use them to tow race car trailers without any issues.
It's definitely not a heavy duty pickup truck and it only has a 5.5ft bed, but for me, 99% of the time it's just fine as a "truck". And the fun factor more than makes up for the rest.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. I spent yesterday in Madison and saw several people towing the same camper we're looking at with Grand Cherokees, so I'm starting to get leery of those saying I need a 3/4 ton pickup to tow a small trailer.

Well I will say this. If you go out and get yourself a 2000-2006 Suburban, or preferably a Yukon, you may consider it an appliance. But it will tow the shit out of that camper. And usually with campers your doing long drives. It's a great vehicle for a long driver.

I have considered a GMT800 as well--I know they're good for high mileage and relatively rough service but I know I'll get bored with it right away.

[tooloud10]

Found a loaded '17 Raptor with all the goodies at the same dealer I bought my '15 from. Going to talk to them tomorrow. She's all about it but I'm wondering if it makes any sense to buy used.

[tooloud10]

^^ I do like that it doesn't have all the stick-on graphics and that it has the panoramic sunroof. She really wanted that option on the last one and I reluctantly went along, only to realize that I liked it too.

[Airkuhl]

I had the stickers on mine, grudgingly, only because I liked the rest of the spec. My detailer pulled them off (using dental floss), cleaned, clayed and waxed the area for under a hundred bucks.

The pano roof is amazing, especially for the rear seat passengers. American super-cab pickup trucks have the best rear seats IMO.

The new vs used thing is a good question. They hold value so well and regional pricing is such that some used are more expensive than new. 10K+ ADA in CA, 5K off MSPR in ID. That's $15K delta and shipping is maybe $1K. Or just fly in one way for $200 and drive back, they are excellent highway cruisers.

[JDS968]

Get a 2003-2006 (5 speed) Land Cruiser 100. It has all the luxury, comfort, and practicality of your Land Rover, better towing capability and safety, and it is indestructible.

I don't hate that idea, but she will. Does it have a heated steering wheel? :D

If you move up to 2011 LX570, you get a heated steering wheel.

The LX is probably more fun to drive anyway with the hydraulic suspension.

[tooloud10]

I had the stickers on mine, grudgingly, only because I liked the rest of the spec. My detailer pulled them off (using dental floss), cleaned, clayed and waxed the area for under a hundred bucks.

That's what I did for the "Sport" stickers on my '15 F150. Too bad it's like a grand for the sticker option--which is nuts--but I know what you mean about liking the rest of the spec.

The new vs used thing is a good question. They hold value so well and regional pricing is such that some used are more expensive than new. 10K+ ADA in CA, 5K off MSPR in ID. That's $15K delta and shipping is maybe $1K. Or just fly in one way for $200 and drive back, they are excellent highway cruisers.

I remember you saying that you got yours discounted, which was unheard of at the time. I know my dealer has a new '20 in transit with the right spec that they're offering $5k off MSRP already.

If you move up to 2011 LX570, you get a heated steering wheel.

The LX is probably more fun to drive anyway with the hydraulic suspension.

The heated wheel is nice but I was half joking--it's not a dealbreaker. I have considered a Land Cruiser or even a G550, mostly because I told myself I'm going to start buying cars that hold their value better. Leaning towards the Raptor because of the long wheelbase and because I've already had a Lariat from the same generation and really liked it. Always wanted a Raptor but they weren't available in '15.

[Van1]

I’m genuinely curious what the payload sticker says on that loaded Raptor with sunroof. Ford brochure states 1200 lbs for a Super Crew Raptor but it would be interesting to see what the real payload is with heavy options like the big sunroof installed.

The Ford brochure states a payload of 1720 lbs for my 3.0L PowerStroke, 4x4, 145” wheelbase SuperCrew. But in reality, as a totally loaded out Lariat my actual payload is 1311 lbs. That’s a pretty big difference between a stripper model and a loaded model.

[AKSteve]

I had the stickers on mine, grudgingly, only because I liked the rest of the spec. My detailer pulled them off (using dental floss), cleaned, clayed and waxed the area for under a hundred bucks.

The pano roof is amazing, especially for the rear seat passengers. American super-cab pickup trucks have the best rear seats IMO.

The new vs used thing is a good question. They hold value so well and regional pricing is such that some used are more expensive than new. 10K+ ADA in CA, 5K off MSPR in ID. That's $15K delta and shipping is maybe $1K. Or just fly in one way for $200 and drive back, they are excellent highway cruisers.

Mine has just the two black hood stripes. I would've never ordered it that way, but they've grown on me.

Every new Raptor for sale in Alaska has an additional dealer mark up of $15k. I'm pretty sure I could get one for MSRP, but probably not any kind of discount below that. Then again, there's a brand new Raptor coming out next year I think.

[Ponchobroke]

Here’s your Raptor in the desert... just sayin’.
If I’m towing I’d use a tow rig like a 2500 HD.

[tooloud10]

I’m genuinely curious what the payload sticker says on that loaded Raptor with sunroof. Ford brochure states 1200 lbs for a Super Crew Raptor but it would be interesting to see what the real payload is with heavy options like the big sunroof installed.

The Ford brochure states a payload of 1720 lbs for my 3.0L PowerStroke, 4x4, 145” wheelbase SuperCrew. But in reality, as a totally loaded out Lariat my actual payload is 1311 lbs. That’s a pretty big difference between a stripper model and a loaded model.

I'm going to check it out this afternoon and will take a picture of the sticker. The brochure for my '15 Lariat SuperCrew stated 2020 lb payload but I don't recall what the sticker actually showed.

Every new Raptor for sale in Alaska has an additional dealer mark up of $15k. I'm pretty sure I could get one for MSRP, but probably not any kind of discount below that.

I'm curious if I could get more than $5k off of a new one, considering that's my dealer's starting price. Luckily I have a pretty good relationship with them and have bought several vehicles from them and have had a few company cars delivered by them, so they're pretty easy to work with.

Then again, there's a brand new Raptor coming out next year I think.

Thought about that but I have to draw the line somewhere...

[Airkuhl]

Here’s your Raptor in the desert... just sayin’.
If I’m towing I’d use a tow rig like a 2500 HD.

This past winter I towed a commercial snow plow riding on chains out of a ditch with my Raptor on all season tires. Getting stuck is about the driver more than the vehicle.

I agree that nothing beats a dedicated tow rig when you are towing something big. Only problem is that they kinda suck when you are not towing.

[Bart]

What engine does the Raptor have you're looking at?

[tooloud10]

Here’s your Raptor in the desert... just sayin’.

You can get anything stuck. Someone putting a new 991 GT3 into a wall on a track doesn't mean Porsche doesn't build a fine car.

If I’m towing I’d use a tow rig like a 2500 HD.

I had an '05 F250 Powerstroke years ago. It was a great truck but it's way overkill to tow a 3500 lb camper around a few times a year. If a Raptor can tow a 5k camper as well as my old F150 could tow 8k lbs of car trailer, I would be perfectly content. Over the weekend I saw three of the same model trailer that we're looking at. Two were being towed by Grand Cherokees and the other was hooked to a new Honda Ridgeline. A buddy is using a Tacoma for the same job.

Here's a video of a second-gen Raptor towing a very small Shasta camper, and then with a much larger 32' camper that weighs 6800 lbs--that's more than 8' longer and about twice the weight of the models we're considering. I don't see anything that concerns me. I gotta remind everyone that I'm looking for a personal/family vehicle that can always occasionally tow--I'm *not* looking for a vehicle exclusively for towing.

[unBilt 987]

Here’s your Raptor in the desert... just sayin’.
If I’m towing I’d use a tow rig like a 2500 HD.

I've been addicted to that guy's channel for a few weeks now.

[tooloud10]

I agree that nothing beats a dedicated tow rig when you are towing something big. Only problem is that they kinda suck when you are not towing.

This, exactly. My SO will likely be driving this a lot. She *loved* driving my '15 F150 for family duty, but she *loathed* my '05 F250. If I didn't have 5k lbs of trailer hooked to it, I couldn't keep a cup of coffee in the cupholder.

What engine does the Raptor have you're looking at?

3.5TT V6 with 450hp. My old one had the 3.5TT with 365hp.

[amdavid]

Okay, I'll say it......a Cayenne S with a V8 (340hp)?...or do you need the truck bed?

Towed our boat this weekend with our older Cayenne (955S) and those piggy's pull 4500ish pounds nicely. I haven't pulled boat yet with 958S Cayenne @ 400hp.

[tooloud10]

Okay, I'll say it......a Cayenne S with a V8 (340hp)?...or do you need the truck bed?

Towed our boat this weekend with our older Cayenne (955S) and those piggy's pull 4500ish pounds nicely. I haven't pulled boat yet with 958S Cayenne @ 400hp.

Great question, and I've always wanted a TT or a GTS but I essentially have the same concern as just towing with the LR3 I already have--the manual says not to use a weight distribution hitch on the vehicle, but it's required in Iowa. Most/all of the Euro SUVs seem to have this same note about WDHs, and I can never get a good answer as to why. Beyond that, the tongue rating is pretty low on the SUVs and I think I could surpass it with a loaded travel trailer.

This whole process has been more confusing than I ever expected. Half the advice I get is to hook it up to the car I have and roll with it, the other half insists I need a 3/4-ton truck to do what I'm asking. As the vehicle is also going to be a DD/family hauler, a half-ton pickup is me splitting the difference between the advice I've been getting...and if I'm going to get a half-ton pickup, I want a Raptor this time around.

[AllanH]

Why not beef up the suspension on the Raptor?

[mussberger]

Sweet trailer

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1961- ... 2020-08-11

[tooloud10]

Drove the truck yesterday and really liked it. Has everything but the heated rear seats, which isn't a dealbreaker. It does have the upgraded 17" forged wheels that look really nice. Payload is only 1052 lbs which doesn't leave a lot of overhead. The power was incredible for such a large vehicle.

I'm still kinda shocked at what these things go for used but I guess that's the cost of entry.

IMG_7707.jpg

[Van1]

Considering that your proposed 4000 lb trailer should have a tongue weight of about 500 lbs (12-13% ideal, 10% min), plus 100 lbs for a weight distribution hitch leaves you with about 450 lbs you can haul in truck. Very doable if your family isn’t on the larger size and you distribute most of your gear inside the trailer and not in the truck. 150 lbs for the driver is already accounted for in that 1052 number according to Ford.

Checked my Macan GTS this morning and it has a payload of 1058 lbs. Interesting that a small SUV has more payload than a full size pickup. Although I don’t know if Porsche accounted for the driver or not.

[unBilt 987]

Drove the truck yesterday and really liked it. Has everything but the heated rear seats, which isn't a dealbreaker. It does have the upgraded 17" forged wheels that look really nice. Payload is only 1052 lbs which doesn't leave a lot of overhead. The power was incredible for such a large vehicle.

I'm still kinda shocked at what these things go for used but I guess that's the cost of entry.

IMG_7707.jpg

Wow.... so two full size adults and 2 pre-teens in the back seat... and with basic luggage you're almost at payload already?

I'm surprised. This reminds me of the GMC Syclone.

[AKSteve]

It's not really that bad. I've had 5 adults in the cabin and fishing gear/luggage in the back and it wasn't a problem. You don't really notice the low payload capacity until you start putting really heavy stuff into the bed of the truck.

I really love my Raptor. I couldn't be happier with it. I just don't have anything I need to tow with it.

I did upgrade the exhaust on mine, because the stock exhaust sounds pretty lame. I put on a Borla Type S and it sounds great.

[Airkuhl]

Mine says 1131 lbs, is the one you drove a Super cab or a Crew cab?

[tooloud10]

Considering that your proposed 4000 lb trailer should have a tongue weight of about 500 lbs (12-13% ideal, 10% min), plus 100 lbs for a weight distribution hitch leaves you with about 450 lbs you can haul in truck. Very doable if your family isn’t on the larger size and you distribute most of your gear inside the trailer and not in the truck. 150 lbs for the driver is already accounted for in that 1052 number according to Ford.

Of the two trailers we're looking at, one is 3100 lbs (370 tongue) and the other is 4000 lbs (440 tongue), so yeah, I'm not that worried.

Checked my Macan GTS this morning and it has a payload of 1058 lbs. Interesting that a small SUV has more payload than a full size pickup. Although I don’t know if Porsche accounted for the driver or not.

The apparent randomness of the ratings is kind of what I'm questioning here. My 4-cylinder Explorer has a payload of 1295 lbs and a 2000 lb tow rating. My 4-cylinder X3 is 1025 lbs and a 3500 lb tow rating.

Wow.... so two full size adults and 2 pre-teens in the back seat... and with basic luggage you're almost at payload already?

I'm surprised. This reminds me of the GMC Syclone.

Well, that's the thing--if you had to load up a vehicle with some people and a bunch of stuff and then tow a 3500 lb trailer a few hours away, who in their right mind would choose a unibody 4-cylinder SUV over a Raptor?

[unBilt 987]

Well, that's the thing--if you had to load up a vehicle with some people and a bunch of stuff and then tow a 3500 lb trailer a few hours away, who in their right mind would choose a unibody 4-cylinder SUV over a Raptor?

I was referring to the Raptor!

[JDS968]

Well, you could always wait a little longer and then buy a RAM TRX. I'll have to check but I believe the payload rating will be significantly above the Raptor.

[rlm328]

Have you bought it yet?

[Fox_]

Well, you could always wait a little longer and then buy a RAM TRX. I'll have to check but I believe the payload rating will be significantly above the Raptor.

Might drop the price on the raptor, if nothing else.

Especially if it has the Hellcat engine.

[Dbull65]

Get the F150 Limited. Has the same engine as the Raptor. Can still do truck stuff. Super nice interiors. I have a Raptor and I love it, It is very fast for a truck, but the Limited is faster as it does not have the same suspension and tires.

[tooloud10]

Well, you could always wait a little longer and then buy a RAM TRX. I'll have to check but I believe the payload rating will be significantly above the Raptor.

I wouldn't rule that out, but I'm a huge fan of the current generation Raptor.

Have you bought it yet?

Nope, not in a huge hurry and Covid has placed my wife in a weird position where the news in the next couple weeks will either cement her position for a long time or give us reason to not risk $60k+ on a toy.

Get the F150 Limited. Has the same engine as the Raptor. Can still do truck stuff. Super nice interiors. I have a Raptor and I love it, It is very fast for a truck, but the Limited is faster as it does not have the same suspension and tires.

I totally understand why you say that, but it's the same as people telling me to buy a 335i instead of an M3. I've wanted a Raptor for years, and a Limited won't scratch that itch. :)

[JDS968]

I totally understand why you say that, but it's the same as people telling me to buy a 335i instead of an M3. I've wanted a Raptor for years, and a Limited won't scratch that itch. :)

Back during the E90 generation, I kept pointing out to people that you could buy a 335i, a limited slip, and the Stage 4 Dinan programming (which included warranty coverage) and end up with the same horsepower as an M3, about 120 more torques, and money left over...

[Dbull65]

I totally understand why you say that, but it's the same as people telling me to buy a 335i instead of an M3. I've wanted a Raptor for years, and a Limited won't scratch that itch.

I agree, I love my Raptor, and it does the truck stuff that I need. If you research it, there are some fixes to help with towing.

[tooloud10]

Back during the E90 generation, I kept pointing out to people that you could buy a 335i, a limited slip, and the Stage 4 Dinan programming (which included warranty coverage) and end up with the same horsepower as an M3, about 120 more torques, and money left over...

Yep, and the power is available at much lower revs than the M3 (same reason I prefer the Ecoboost to the V8 in the F150) but it'll never sound like my M3's V8 at 8400 RPMs. :)

I agree, I love my Raptor, and it does the truck stuff that I need. If you research it, there are some fixes to help with towing.

Thanks, I'm looking into that.

[Airkuhl]

Just in case you're not already lurking there:

https://www.fordraptorforum.com/

[tooloud10]

Just in case you're not already lurking there:

https://www.fordraptorforum.com/

Thanks, I've been on the F150forum for years but Raptor content is a little lacking. I'll check this one out.

[JDS968]

Back during the E90 generation, I kept pointing out to people that you could buy a 335i, a limited slip, and the Stage 4 Dinan programming (which included warranty coverage) and end up with the same horsepower as an M3, about 120 more torques, and money left over...

Yep, and the power is available at much lower revs than the M3 (same reason I prefer the Ecoboost to the V8 in the F150) but it'll never sound like my M3's V8 at 8400 RPMs. :)

Yeah, plus you have throttle response the N54 will never match.

Everything is a tradeoff.