Mid-engine cars
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By N_Jay
#142217
Seems the PDK does a really great job of doing the right thing at the right time.
Except . . .
I was on the interstate in 7th (M) and wondered what WOT would sound and feel like.
Well I hit the downshift point on the throttle, and the PDK immediately downshift to the lowest acceptable gear.
In this case it was 3rd just short of the Rev limiter.
But being in M it stays in 3rd waiting for you to upshift.
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By worf
#142234
In M mode the PDK will
- downshift to a lower gear to avoid lugging/stalling the engine
- enter a “semi-neutral” mode(*) when you come to a stop (the latter also happens in A mode.)
- and downshift if you depress the pedal enough to engage the virtual (or actual - I forget which) “kickdown” switch.

Other than that, in M node the PDK will, just like a manual, let you bounce off the rev limiter all day long (engine guts being the limiting factor) and will not shift for you.

I typically leave the PDK in A mode, except when in Sport Plus mode, and use the paddles to up/down shift. I believe that my PDK has “learned” my upshift preferences. But, it doesn’t seem to learn downshift (engine braking) preferences.

(*) “Actual” neutral can be called at any time by simultaneously “clicking” both steering wheel paddles (if yours has paddles and not the spoke-mounted rocket switches.)

All this -^ based upon my experience with 991/981 PDK. Your 987 may behave differently but, I suspect it doesn’t.
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By N_Jay
#142254
I have what I guess the rocket shift switches.
I also don't have "sport" mode.
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By fpena944
#142273
N_Jay wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:49 pm I have what I guess the rocket shift switches.
I also don't have "sport" mode.
I don't know if yours is like mine but when not in "Sport" mode it feels lazy and slow to react to anything. I hate it and would dare say it could put you in some dangerous situations all in an effort to save fuel by keeping the engine under 2k RPM.

Sport mode though feels like it should and does pretty well with upshifting and blips the throttle for downshifting. I don't use Sport Plus that often because if I do want to shift I just keep it in Sport and move to manual mode.

@worf = what would you say the biggest differences are between Sport manual mode and Sport Plus mode?
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By N_Jay
#142281
I have heard that you can add sport mode through coding.
Anyone know for sure.

I M not sure if the PDK learns your driving, or just adapt to throttle and other control input as you get used to it.
It definitely pays attention to how you drive and)at least in short term) adjusts the shift points and shift speed.
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By worf
#142296
N_Jay wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:57 pm I have heard that you can add sport mode through coding.
Anyone know for sure.
For the 987 I don't know.

In 981 land, they all have Sport Mode. Sport Plus Mode is an additional mode (along with other things) that comes with the Sport Chrono Option.

In 981 land, the software-driven modes (Sport Plus Mode, and PSM Sport Mode) that come with Sport Chrono can be added by a dealer. It does have a mechanical component - the panel needs an extra button. Retrofitting the rest of the mechanical and cosmetic stuff is another deal though.

How all that works in 987 land... dunno.

But, look around the cabin and owner's manual for a "Sport" button.

N_Jay wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:57 pm I M not sure if the PDK learns your driving, or just adapt to throttle and other control input as you get used to it.
It definitely pays attention to how you drive and)at least in short term) adjusts the shift points and shift speed.
987 PDK software may be a version behind? Or not.
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By worf
#142318
fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:39 pm @worf = what would you say the biggest differences are between Sport manual mode and Sport Plus mode?
Simple question, overly complicated answer:

In original form for the 981 PDK, Sport Plus mode endeavors to keep you in the torque band of the motor at all times. Or, in other words, at the top of the rev range. It's basically stupid on the street if the PDK is in A mode. Shifts are quicker and harder, although they are still load/rpm modulated. Sports Plus mode automatically sets PASM to 'hard' but that can be returned to 'comfort' via the PASM button. Throttle response may (or may not) change from Sports Mode (I forget) and there should be no "exhaust burbles" in Sport Plus mode (since that's just wasting fuel.)

However...

In 991.2 / 718 (982/981.2) Land the Sport Plus coding for the PDK was made less stupid. It was tuned to be a bit more aware of how the car was being driven and doesn't slavishly refuse to shift until red line or immediately down shift to keep the engine at the beginning of the high torque range.

Why does this matter?

Well, there was a class action suit - originating, of course, in CA - where a few people claimed that since Sport Plus Mode resulted in worse fuel economy (and therefore higher emissions) that Porsche had defrauded them. This applied to .1 models with PDK and Sport Chrono (only.)

Long story short, a year(-ish) later Porsche issued a recall to make .1 Sport Plus PDK behave more like .2 Sport Plus PDK.

IIRC the recall was the AMOCO recall.

Your 981 may or may not have had it done. You may or may not want it done if it wasn't.
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By worf
#142321
fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:39 pm @worf = what would you say the biggest differences are between Sport manual mode and Sport Plus mode?
I realized I didn't actually answer your question.

The main difference, in short, is that in A mode, Sport Mode behaves roughly the way you'd probably drive a manual. Sport Plus Mode is for the track and Normal Mode is trying to pass the EPA emissions tests.

Normal mode sucks.
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By fpena944
#142390
worf wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:54 pm
fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:39 pm @worf = what would you say the biggest differences are between Sport manual mode and Sport Plus mode?
Simple question, overly complicated answer:

In original form for the 981 PDK, Sport Plus mode endeavors to keep you in the torque band of the motor at all times. Or, in other words, at the top of the rev range. It's basically stupid on the street if the PDK is in A mode. Shifts are quicker and harder, although they are still load/rpm modulated. Sports Plus mode automatically sets PASM to 'hard' but that can be returned to 'comfort' via the PASM button. Throttle response may (or may not) change from Sports Mode (I forget) and there should be no "exhaust burbles" in Sport Plus mode (since that's just wasting fuel.)

However...

In 991.2 / 718 (982/981.2) Land the Sport Plus coding for the PDK was made less stupid. It was tuned to be a bit more aware of how the car was being driven and doesn't slavishly refuse to shift until red line or immediately down shift to keep the engine at the beginning of the high torque range.

Why does this matter?

Well, there was a class action suit - originating, of course, in CA - where a few people claimed that since Sport Plus Mode resulted in worse fuel economy (and therefore higher emissions) that Porsche had defrauded them. This applied to .1 models with PDK and Sport Chrono (only.)

Long story short, a year(-ish) later Porsche issued a recall to make .1 Sport Plus PDK behave more like .2 Sport Plus PDK.

IIRC the recall was the AMOCO recall.

Your 981 may or may not have had it done. You may or may not want it done if it wasn't.
worf wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:58 pm
fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:39 pm @worf = what would you say the biggest differences are between Sport manual mode and Sport Plus mode?
I realized I didn't actually answer your question.

The main difference, in short, is that in A mode, Sport Mode behaves roughly the way you'd probably drive a manual. Sport Plus Mode is for the track and Normal Mode is trying to pass the EPA emissions tests.

Normal mode sucks.
In Sport Plus it almost feels like the car is never going to shift and just run at redline indefinitely.

I had never heard of the lawsuit and whoever filed suit is an idiot as how can you expect a performance mode to net the same results as normal driving?

As for normal mode, I think it more than sucks. I find it dangerous when needing to react or respond to sudden situations. I only use it on the highway when driving at a consistent pace, all other driving I go into Sport when backing out of the garage.

I've been unpleasantly surprised the few times in normal mode where I need to accelerate and the car is like, "uh, what do you want me to do?" while I floor it and wait for a reaction. No thanks!
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By N_Jay
#142401
worf wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:53 pm
N_Jay wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:57 pm I have heard that you can add sport mode through coding.
Anyone know for sure.
For the 987 I don't know.

In 981 land, they all have Sport Mode. Sport Plus Mode is an additional mode (along with other things) that comes with the Sport Chrono Option.

In 981 land, the software-driven modes (Sport Plus Mode, and PSM Sport Mode) that come with Sport Chrono can be added by a dealer. It does have a mechanical component - the panel needs an extra button. Retrofitting the rest of the mechanical and cosmetic stuff is another deal though.

How all that works in 987 land... dunno.

But, look around the cabin and owner's manual for a "Sport" button.

N_Jay wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:57 pm I M not sure if the PDK learns your driving, or just adapt to throttle and other control input as you get used to it.
It definitely pays attention to how you drive and)at least in short term) adjusts the shift points and shift speed.
987 PDK software may be a version behind? Or not.
Nope, no button.
Read the manual (had to trade in 3 man-points), it shows where the button is and mine doesn't have it.
Maybe in 2012 it was only on certain option level cars.
Maybe "sport Chrono" adds both modes
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By worf
#142402
N_Jay wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:49 pm Nope, no button.
Read the manual (had to trade in 3 man-points), it shows where the button is and mine doesn't have it.
Maybe in 2012 it was only on certain option level cars.
Maybe "sport Chrono" adds both modes
Ok then. So, unlike the 9[98]1 generation the "Sport button" was not standard. It would have been part of Sport Chrono.
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By N_Jay
#142404
Lots of threads over on planet 9 about people getting it added.
It's between $750 and a $1000 for the option for Between one and 1/2 to 2 hours of labor.
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By worf
#142405
fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:42 pm In Sport Plus it almost feels like the car is never going to shift and just run at redline indefinitely.
Yup. That's the unrecalled and useful-on-a-track-only programming.

fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:42 pm I had never heard of the lawsuit and whoever filed suit is an idiot as how can you expect a performance mode to net the same results as normal driving?
Eggs-zact-a-mundo. You should have seen the outrage on the TOS 991 board when I posted almost-exactly that thought. Most folks got it, a couple of folks were mad because it implied that they were stupid and they then defended the CA ass hats' "logic."

fpena944 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:42 pm As for normal mode, I think it more than sucks. I find it dangerous when needing to react or respond to sudden situations. I only use it on the highway when driving at a consistent pace, all other driving I go into Sport when backing out of the garage.
There's essentially reason to ever use normal mode.

Here's another thing: Normal mode will run your oil at 215+°F. Whereas Sport will target 194°F as Ferry and God intended.

So Sport mode is arguably better for the car. But, it will cost you some fraction of a mile per gallon because of every-so-slightly less-watery oil.

This last behavior was modified for .2/718 land. Even Sport Plus Mode will keep oil temps in the low 200s until it decides that you're 'racing' at which point it'll quickly drop into the 190s until you once again resume the normal traffic program at which point it starts climbing again.
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By worf
#142406
N_Jay wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:17 pm Lots of threads over on planet 9 about people getting it added.
It's between $750 and a $1000 for the option for Between one and 1/2 to 2 hours of labor.
Yeah. I can't comment on the 987 process. On the 981 you need a whole new frigging button panel and then coding. In the 981 context I'd guess 2 hours tops and that only if you have a really bad int3rw3bs connection from the PIWIS to the mutterschiff. Button panel swap is 30 minutes if you've done it once before.

Porsche A.G. wants bucks for the software update. Then add dealer "parts" markup and 1 to 2 hours of labor.

So, 7.5 to 10.0 C seems "about right."

No idea for the 987. I don't even know where the button would be.
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By N_Jay
#142408
Next to the spoiler button
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By N_Jay
#168105
Every day or so I get to have some fun on the way to or from work.
The PDK definitely reacts to how fast you adjust the throttle, as well as how far.
You don't have to use the downshift switch to get it to start shifting more aggressively.
Not sur how long the mode lasts, maybe 30 seconds or so, but as long as you keep driving aggressively, the PDK plays along.

The team that wrote the software must have had a hell of a lot of fun on the test track.
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By fpena944
#168129
N_Jay wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:41 pm Every day or so I get to have some fun on the way to or from work.
The PDK definitely reacts to how fast you adjust the throttle, as well as how far.
You don't have to use the downshift switch to get it to start shifting more aggressively.
Not sur how long the mode lasts, maybe 30 seconds or so, but as long as you keep driving aggressively, the PDK plays along.

The team that wrote the software must have had a hell of a lot of fun on the test track.
The thing I'm not liking about the PDK is the initial slow reaction.

I've been driving my 996 often to get it ready for the state inspection. If I need to get a quick start like jumping into traffic when leaving my neighborhood, I rev to 3k and dump the clutch then I'm off.

On the PDK it starts at 1k RPM and of course with the smaller engine takes a couple of seconds to gain power.

So does anyone know how to get this transmission to launch? It shifts fast but that initial takeoff seems slower than it needs to be.
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By N_Jay
#168157
fpena944 wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:31 am
N_Jay wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:41 pm Every day or so I get to have some fun on the way to or from work.
The PDK definitely reacts to how fast you adjust the throttle, as well as how far.
You don't have to use the downshift switch to get it to start shifting more aggressively.
Not sur how long the mode lasts, maybe 30 seconds or so, but as long as you keep driving aggressively, the PDK plays along.

The team that wrote the software must have had a hell of a lot of fun on the test track.
The thing I'm not liking about the PDK is the initial slow reaction.

I've been driving my 996 often to get it ready for the state inspection. If I need to get a quick start like jumping into traffic when leaving my neighborhood, I rev to 3k and dump the clutch then I'm off.

On the PDK it starts at 1k RPM and of course with the smaller engine takes a couple of seconds to gain power.

So does anyone know how to get this transmission to launch? It shifts fast but that initial takeoff seems slower than it needs to be.
I haven't tried yet, but wondering if holding the brake and giving it a touch of throttle would tell it what you want to do.
Maybe you need the paddle shift wheel so you can engage neutral and rev the engine (I don't have that "yet")?
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By worf
#168163
fpena944 wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:31 am So does anyone know how to get this transmission to launch? It shifts fast but that initial takeoff seems slower than it needs to be.
It is my perception that if you drive it like a viscous-coupled automatic it behaves like a viscous-coupled automatic. Or, in other words, if you habitually leave it ‘in gear’ at stop lights you get the ‘windup delay’ that people expect of automatics.

I always paddle-shift to neutral when I stop. When it’s time to go, I click a paddle, instantly take my foot of the brake and mash the go pedal. At some point after the paddle click I can feel/hear an engagement from the PDK that tells me it’s time to mash ‘right now.’ And when I do, there’s no hesitation or windup. If you don’t mash, once you get the engagement the car will creap.

On the other hand, if I stop and keep it ‘in gear,’ when it’s time to go and I move the foot from brake to throttle I perceive that there is viscous-coupling-like ‘wind up’ before movement after mashing the go-pedal.

Obviously if the above is real and not my warped perception then it’s all about the software. And this is based upon my 991 Turbo that may have different software.

Also, I do believe that the PDK is adaptive. So, an abrupt change of driving habit may have no effect for a while. There is a procedure for ‘clearing’ the PDK. I won’t try to quote the procedure in this post (it’s googleable.) You definitely should do that before you try a big change.

On the other hand, a lot of PDK 991/981 folks complain about a ‘hesitation.’ I’ve never known if it was a ‘real thing’ or not, or related to PDK adaptation and ‘viscous-coupling-style’ driving. Some folks say that they have experienced it on some 9[98][1]s and not others.

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