Mid-engine cars
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By AKSteve
#117227
I just spec'ed one out with my salesman and now we have to wait for an allocation.

Black with blue wheels. Weissach package. PCCB's but with black calipers, Bose, 18-way seats (I'm too tall for the buckets), front axle lift. And I'm probably forgetting some other stuff.


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By worf
#117228
didja get the mag wheels?
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By AKSteve
#117231
worf wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:24 pm didja get the mag wheels?
Umm....no. Did you see the price for that option? $15,640!
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By worf
#117234
AKSteve wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:31 pm
worf wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:24 pm didja get the mag wheels?
Umm....no. Did you see the price for that option? $15,640!
Yeah, but same price as WP, except that it actually does something.

You do know that WP is 100% appearance 0% function package, right?
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By AKSteve
#117235
worf wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:48 pm
AKSteve wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:31 pm
worf wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:24 pm didja get the mag wheels?
Umm....no. Did you see the price for that option? $15,640!
Yeah, but same price as WP, except that it actually does something.

You do know that WP is 100% appearance 0% function package, right?
Yeah, but you get a lot of exposed carbon fiber with the WP. Also, every goddamn 911 I've owned has had scuffed wheels and I don't even want to think about repairing magnesium wheels. Also, Preuninger said everyone gets the WP, so I got the WP.

Also, the wheels can only go down in price and I can buy them later.
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By AKSteve
#117238
Now I am kind of questioning the WP. It seems like what you mostly get with that package is.....less paint. But you need to get the WP to select the magnesium wheel option. Together that is a grand total of $31,050. It seems like most people will probably either get neither or both rather than getting just the WP. But, I'm keeping it in my configuration for the moment.
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By worf
#117252
AKSteve wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:31 pm Now I am kind of questioning the WP. It seems like what you mostly get with that package is.....less paint.
Exactly. Base has CFRP body color panels already where the WP has exposed CF. So, WP gets no weight savings and just adds to PAG's margin.

AKSteve wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:31 pm But you need to get the WP to select the magnesium wheel option. Together that is a grand total of $31,050. It seems like most people will probably either get neither or both rather than getting just the WP. But, I'm keeping it in my configuration for the moment.
Don't bank on it. The configurator is in flux. When it first launched the other day Mag wheels and WP were not interlinked.

I hear ya on the Mag wheels though: too expensive to drive on.

As for me... as far as I'm concerned the only option the 4RS needs is the Fire Extinguisher. Leather, stripes, WP just add cost and don't enhance its purpose as a drive-to-the-track track car.

It's going to be loud as shit inside. The ride - with some bushings replaced with solid joints - is going to suck except on a track or on billiard-smooth roads. It's compromised as a road car.

That written, I'd get one if I was a track rat. But, I'm not and I have too many 'occasional use' cars already.

It would look seriously bad ass collecting dust in my garage though. :banghead: :beerchug:
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By AKSteve
#117254
worf wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:56 pm It would look seriously bad ass collecting dust in my garage though. :banghead: :beerchug:
I see this as Porsche's last hurrah and goodbye to internal combustion engines. The same thing with Chevy's new 8k rev-limit V8 in the Z-06. After these cars, everything is going to be electric or hybrid. The GT4 RS may wind up being a collector's item. Having said that, I plan to drive mine.

As far as not being a good choice for road use:
Preuninger thinks the GT4 RS "one of, if not, the most emotional cars" his team has ever made. "this car is not only a track car, it's Renn Sport, and it's also Renn Spaß, which means fun," he says. "It's so great on a mountain road, on a back road, and just in a normal driving situation, when you want to go out driving for the sake of driving, like you would use a motorcycle."

"I mean, if you have this car and the best motorcycles in the world, the motorcycle will collect dust, I promise."
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By fpena944
#117385
@AKSteve - really excited for you! This vehicle will likely be one of the last hurrahs for gas-powered cars as we know them


I know after owning my Cayman for a few weeks the thought of GT3 style horsepower combined with the handling of this body style is quite appealing. :bigok:
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By worf
#117395
*Rumor* is that there will be two more GT-RS-ish variants with the GT3 motor: a Spyder RS and another fixed-roof coupe.

… and they will be limited production and priced in the “if you have to ask” category.

4RS production is supposed to run for 2.5 years. So, through model year ‘24 and is not limited except by Porsche’s capacity.

Or so legend has it.
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By worf
#117399
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By AKSteve
#117426
fpena944 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:23 am @AKSteve - really excited for you! This vehicle will likely be one of the last hurrahs for gas-powered cars as we know them


I know after owning my Cayman for a few weeks the thought of GT3 style horsepower combined with the handling of this body style is quite appealing. :bigok:
Thanks. Hopefully It won't take too long for my dealership to get an allocation. Anyway, K've loved the Cayman platform ever since I was given one as a loaner car. It honestly does feel more balanced and handles better than the 911. I was driving just the regular base Cayman and loved it. I made sure I set the high mark for all of the G meter records before returning the car.

I kicked myself for not getting the previous version of the GT4 and vowed to make sure I get one this time. I totally was NOT expecting it to be a version with the GT3 engine in it though. 500HP with a 9,000rpm redline! Are you kidding me??? OH, man!
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By AKSteve
#118169
I'm starting to worry a bit about the roll cage in this car. Will it reduce seat travel? And as a tall driver, will the back or side of my head be able to touch up against the metal roll cage? Because that won't work at all. I don't supposed there's a "Roll Cage Delete" option that I missed somewhere?


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By worf
#118213
AKSteve wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:25 am I don't supposed there's a "Roll Cage Delete" option that I missed somewhere?
As I wrote above: don’t completely trust the configurator.

It will not have a roll cage.

The roll cage delete option is compulsory in the U.S. (unless it comes padded from the factory and Porsche won’t do that.)

Porsche has never sold a street car with a roll cage in the U.S.
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By AKSteve
#118264
worf wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:25 am
AKSteve wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:25 am I don't supposed there's a "Roll Cage Delete" option that I missed somewhere?
As I wrote above: don’t completely trust the configurator.

It will not have a roll cage.

The roll cage delete option is compulsory in the U.S. (unless it comes padded from the factory and Porsche won’t do that.)

Porsche has never sold a street car with a roll cage in the U.S.
I'm happy that I won't be getting a car with a roll cage. But I believe part of the cost of the Weissach package in the rest of the world is from the roll cage being made from titanium if you get that package to save weight. I'm happy that my car will weigh even less than the European model since it won't have any roll cage. But that seems to make the Weissach Package in the USA even more of a ripoff, unless they give you the roll cage so you can install it on your own later,
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By worf
#118304
AKSteve wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:30 pm ... that seems to make the Weissach Package in the USA even more of a ripoff, ...
Yup.
AKSteve wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:30 pm ... unless they give you the roll cage so you can install it on your own later,
From what I remember reading, it is rather difficult to source the parts for a factory roll cage for street cars delivered to the US.
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By K964
#118502
Love the car but what is the Stealerships ADM? A neighbor of mine inquired about a new GT3 and was told sticker + 80k. This is an incredible turn off for me and I refuse to play that game.
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By worf
#118503
K964 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:48 pm Love the car but what is the Stealerships ADM? A neighbor of mine inquired about a new GT3 and was told sticker + 80k. This is an incredible turn off for me and I refuse to play that game.
In markets with silly money ADM is $50k to $100k. One TOS poster wrote that a friend of his is paying $314k to get the first 4RS allocation for his (CA) dealership.

AP (GT div boss man at PAG) is on the record saying the 4RS production will be 2.5 years. So, that should cover some out to MY'24.

If you are not a 918 VIP or similar and don't want to pay ADM then it seems likely that a 4RS can be had for MSRP if you wait. On the other hand, you'd better get in line for a MY'24 allocation right now.
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By milrad
#120054
SeanR wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:43 am @milrad when are you tossing this thing in with the 992TTS? Tis only money right?
Well, maybe if I were a 928 Whisperer.... :biggrin:

Funny you should ask though. I called my sales lady and said "Hey, since I just ordered that loaded-up TTS from you, where will I be on the list for a GT4 RS?" She said, "uh, lemme check and get back to you." Since then, crickets lol. I was (mostly) joking, but I wanted to hear the answer for entertainment purposes. I still have a lot of seconds to find in the 981 GT4 I have.
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By SeanR
#120059
milrad wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:53 pm
SeanR wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:43 am @milrad when are you tossing this thing in with the 992TTS? Tis only money right?
Well, maybe if I were a 928 Whisperer.... :biggrin:

Funny you should ask though. I called my sales lady and said "Hey, since I just ordered that loaded-up TTS from you, where will I be on the list for a GT4 RS?" She said, "uh, lemme check and get back to you." Since then, crickets lol. I was (mostly) joking, but I wanted to hear the answer for entertainment purposes. I still have a lot of seconds to find in the 981 GT4 I have.
Just imagine how many seconds you’ll gain in this one. When you called and told me 4-7 second gain in the GT4 with tires and wheels i was amazed. I think you should think about gaining 10-15 seconds with only an additional $100k investment. :). I’d be happy to be a steward of the current car, at a reduced/used price point of course.
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By UDPride
#141860
Well the press cars are now out and the general consensus is the GT4RS will end up alongside the GT3RS 4.0, 911 R, and a few others as icons of a dying era of ICE.

The only downside is nobody like you and me will ever be able to own one. They will all get allocated to the whales with 20-car collections and then sit in a mini museum with pinball machines and pop-a-shots and rarely get driven, then sold as soon as allowable for 6-figure windfall profits. These buyers don't even really want the cars. They just want them so nobody else can get them. Its like buying a hot stock on Motley Fool. Porsche has gone down the same path as Ferrari and created a two-tiered system.

It just makes zero financial sense to me. Every new GT car you sell to a new buyer thats never owned a GT car before is an additional roving salesperson for your brand. Selling the same cars to the same small group of people doesn't increase your market share or reach or propagation potential or brand loyalty in any way.
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By worf
#141899
UDPride wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:05 am It just makes zero financial sense to me. Every new GT car you sell to a new buyer thats never owned a GT car before is an additional roving salesperson for your brand. Selling the same cars to the same small group of people doesn't increase your market share or reach or propagation potential or brand loyalty in any way.
Since PAG is the most profitable (non-boutique) car company on the earth (on a per unit basis) you would be wise to assume that what they are doing makes a lot of financial sense. You (or I) might not understand it, or agree with it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t working.

Why would PAG need to “increase its market share?” Its volume of sports car production is effectively capped due to emissions regulations. And, to some extent, due to the size of the Zuffenhausen factory that can’t be expanded. And, you *know* that a “GT” car that isn’t made in Zuffenhausen isn’t a “true” GT car </sarcasm>
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By UDPride
#141928
Its like Rolex....Rolex purposely caps the market at a certain number of watches even though they could sell twice as many. All they'd have to do is build them. Same with the Porsche GT cars. Imagine a company board meeting where the conversation is, "boss, we could sell twice as many widgets and get even more rich if we built them" and the boss says, "yeah just not sure I like that idea."

I know Porsche is highly profitable, but that doesnt mean they are pursuing the highest path of profitability. And the long-term effects are still unknown but Im already seeing negativity around not just Porsche but Ferrari and others for the second-class citizen treatment. Like Rolex, enthusiasts are deciding "you know I can buy a nice fast sports car (or watch) from many competitors and still be happy....so why am I hesitating?" People are getting on with life and losing brand loyalty. I know I am. Life's too short to be told I need to buy 3 Cayennes and a Panamera before Im given the "favor" of buying a 718 Speedster or GT3. What sale they earn by selling it to the whale, they just lost on the other end in not selling one to me....because had they built two cars the whale and I would both have one.

Whats the difference if you build 5,000 GT3s and they all sell to whales or they all sell to 5,000 first time GT3 buyers? The checks cash exactly the same. In the latter case however you'd just greatly expanded your ambassadorship. Porsche's worry is those 5,000 new GT3 owners won't by 5,000 Cayennes. But I can resolve that dilemma too -- just build more Cayennes to first-time Cayenne owners because they are out there too. Those checks cash the same too.

Just because businesses do things doesnt always mean its because it was smart. Businesses do really dumb things every day. Sometimes in perpetuity.

I sell product in my own business. I love repeat customers. I treat them well. But Im always more excited when I get a new customer because my "throughput" has just gotten larger. For each new customer, they talk about the product to their own friends and the outreach propagates and brings in even more referrals. Saturation and exponentiality is a wonderful thing.
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By worf
#141947
UD, you conveniently skipped over one thing I wrote because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Are you interested in examining the system that produces Porsche's behavior and debating why alternate behavior might make less sense without changes to the underlying system?

Or do you just want us to 'listen' to you express your feelings?
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By AKSteve
#149016
I thought the dealer had forgotten about me or lost my order, but I just got a call asking if I'd like to keep my order in place. I said Yes, of course. And I was informed that they're switching it from a 2022 to a 2023 order. I've heard all initial GT4 RS orders will be 2023 model year cars. The only cars that are out on the road right now are press cars and production for customer cars won't start until the fall. The sales woman who called me said she couldn't tell me my place on their "list." Which is funny since I put the order in the day after the car was announced and the lead salesman at that time didn't even know the car existed when he placed my order.

But I'm still pessimistic that I'll ever get a chance to buy one of these cars.
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By worf
#149019
AKSteve wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 2:53 pm But I'm still pessimistic that I'll ever get a chance to buy one of these cars.
If you refuse to pay ADM then keep praying.

If you are willing to pay ADM you will be able to get one. IIRC in CA $50k will get you to the first couple of spots in the line.

In your neck of the woods maybe a lot less.

If you’re going to spec Weissach and other expensive options ADM requirements will be less.

Sucks but that’s the game on the last mid-engined internal combustion Porsche sports cars ever.

At least right now.

If, on the other hand, you are convinced that a big recession will hit by the end of the year, then maybe, just maybe MSRP allocations will be available for MY’24.

On the gripping hand MY’24 may not be ‘a thing’ for 718s.
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By AKSteve
#149024
worf wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:20 pm
AKSteve wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 2:53 pm But I'm still pessimistic that I'll ever get a chance to buy one of these cars.
If you refuse to pay ADM then keep praying.

If you are willing to pay ADM you will be able to get one. IIRC in CA $50k will get you to the first couple of spots in the line.

In your neck of the woods maybe a lot less.
For this car, I would probably be willing to pay a $25k markup. I think it's something very special. But, in the small market where I live, I would shoot for $10-15k markup.

I had a chance to get a Turbo S Cabriolet back at the beginning of the year that was just how I would've spec'ed it and it had a $25k markup and I passed. I should've taken it. Oh well. I was actually expecting the car market to improve. Instead, it got worse.Now I'm starting to feel like the Turbo S isn't special enough to justify the price (with the markups) compared to a regular 911. For $300k, you want it to have its own identity and it's really just a 911 with a fatter ass and sone air scoops.
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By worf
#149049
AKSteve wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:09 pm ... it's really just a 911 with a fatter ass and sone air scoops.
And 640 hp. Rear-wheel steering. Active suspension. All-wheel drive.
AKSteve wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:09 pm Now I'm starting to feel like the Turbo S isn't special enough to justify the price (with the markups) compared to a regular 911.
That's the good and bad of the 911 Turbo. Good because it's not so special that it attracts gawkers. Bad because if you're looking to attract gawkers. Good because you can drive it anywhere in all weather. Bad if what you're looking for is an "occasion car."

If the latter, look at used McLarens. They have a pretty good deal viz-a-viz keeping them in warranty.

On the other hand... where's your nearest dealer?

On the gripping hand, a 992S with a manual transmission is probably more fun and $100k-$150k less. Even though it's down 200 hp.

If you can get an allocation for one.

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