Watercooled 911s
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By diddy2003
#205323
https://www.evo.co.uk/rimac/nevera/1884 ... f-the-week

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"The 996 has been equipped with the 3.8-litre 9A1 flat-six from a 991.1 Carrera S, paired to a trick Syvecs ECU."

I can't wait to read the article/watch the video.




Jethro talks about the build for about the last 35 min here:


https://9werksradio.buzzsprout.com/8...n-that-996?t=0
Last edited by diddy2003 on Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheDeckMan liked this
By fpena944
#205570
I hope we're seeing interest in the 996 platform starting to increase. It really is the bargain 996 with a much higher performance ceiling than the previous generations.

As for this build, all I can say is WOW!

I figure the discussion of this one went somewhat like this:

"Hey is it possible to put a 991 drivetrain in a 996"

Everyone's answer - "No that would be too much effort. Better to just buy a 991 and be done with it."

Jethro's answer - "Step aside and watch this..."
By TheDeckMan
#205578
First one is always the hardest to pave the way, similar to swaps in VW's/Audi's, then once some documentation gets out and solutions for some of the tough hang-ups then things take off like crazy. Absolutely agree Fernando with the 996 platform offering a great base for a build/hot rodding as seen with Jethro's build.

Slightly biased towards 996s :drunk:
By amdavid
#205854
fpena944 wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:07 pm I hope we're seeing interest in the 996 platform starting to increase. It really is the bargain 996 with a much higher performance ceiling than the previous generations.

As for this build, all I can say is WOW!

I figure the discussion of this one went somewhat like this:

"Hey is it possible to put a 991 drivetrain in a 996"

Everyone's answer - "No that would be too much effort. Better to just buy a 991 and be done with it."

Jethro's answer - "Step aside and watch this..."
It's a fantastic swap in my opinion. I feel this is one of those.....beauty is not skin deep. To me it looks better knowing what's under the hood. :evilgrin:
By fpena944
#258682
diddy2003 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:33 pm
Holy crap!!!

186 MPH in an NA 996!!!

So given all of the challenges he discussed with putting the DFI engine into this chassis, what does he gain by going with this engine compared to something from Raby that addresses all of the M96's weak points?

Or is this an example of thinking an alternative was going to be cheaper/easier but once you get in there it really isn't?
By diddy2003
#258708
fpena944 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:19 pm
diddy2003 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:33 pm
Holy crap!!!

186 MPH in an NA 996!!!

So given all of the challenges he discussed with putting the DFI engine into this chassis, what does he gain by going with this engine compared to something from Raby that addresses all of the M96's weak points?

Or is this an example of thinking an alternative was going to be cheaper/easier but once you get in there it really isn't?
I believe, from recollection, that he was trying to do something a little different and then opened up a giant can of worms. Very cool build, but I believe that the builders of the car have zero interest in doing another one. I think the exhaust costs more than the original car did. With the recent crop of engine swaps (LS, K24, Audi 2.7) unsure if anyone will be interested in doing another due to the headache/expense. I'm personally leaning towards the 3.8/4L route.
By fpena944
#258715
diddy2003 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:58 pm
fpena944 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:19 pm
diddy2003 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:33 pm
Holy crap!!!

186 MPH in an NA 996!!!

So given all of the challenges he discussed with putting the DFI engine into this chassis, what does he gain by going with this engine compared to something from Raby that addresses all of the M96's weak points?

Or is this an example of thinking an alternative was going to be cheaper/easier but once you get in there it really isn't?
I believe, from recollection, that he was trying to do something a little different and then opened up a giant can of worms. Very cool build, but I believe that the builders of the car have zero interest in doing another one. I think the exhaust costs more than the original car did. With the recent crop of engine swaps (LS, K24, Audi 2.7) unsure if anyone will be interested in doing another due to the headache/expense. I'm personally leaning towards the 3.8/4L route.
I've got almost 200k on my cabrio so looking at what options I'll have going forward. The sticky point for me though is that I could probably just buy another 2002 996 with fewer miles than it will cost me to rebuild the engine and recondition the top, suspension, and interior. But I've had this car for close to 14 years so kind of attached to it.

But I'm also thinking a 4 liter M96 rebuild would be the ideal way to go - although expensive!
By TheDeckMan
#258873
The devil you know often is better than the one you dont when it comes to projects it always seems. 3.8L or a 4.0L while expensive does seem far cheaper than say this DFI motor swap.
By diddy2003
#258976
fpena944 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:13 pm
diddy2003 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:58 pm
fpena944 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:19 pm

Holy crap!!!

186 MPH in an NA 996!!!

So given all of the challenges he discussed with putting the DFI engine into this chassis, what does he gain by going with this engine compared to something from Raby that addresses all of the M96's weak points?

Or is this an example of thinking an alternative was going to be cheaper/easier but once you get in there it really isn't?
I believe, from recollection, that he was trying to do something a little different and then opened up a giant can of worms. Very cool build, but I believe that the builders of the car have zero interest in doing another one. I think the exhaust costs more than the original car did. With the recent crop of engine swaps (LS, K24, Audi 2.7) unsure if anyone will be interested in doing another due to the headache/expense. I'm personally leaning towards the 3.8/4L route.
I've got almost 200k on my cabrio so looking at what options I'll have going forward. The sticky point for me though is that I could probably just buy another 2002 996 with fewer miles than it will cost me to rebuild the engine and recondition the top, suspension, and interior. But I've had this car for close to 14 years so kind of attached to it.

But I'm also thinking a 4 liter M96 rebuild would be the ideal way to go - although expensive!
These cars are hard in that, what's the price of enjoyment? For me, this car is like a heavily discounted bargain of an amazing sports car. I have had the benefit of driving many different great cars, and every time I drive mine after, it reminds me of how good it is. Hell, I've driven 996.2 GT3, 997.1 GT3, 997.2 GT3, and 991.2 GT3. All ceramic brake manual cars. I'm not so sure they are $100k+ "better" cars.

So, with that in mind, a 4.0L is also a heavily discounted bargain, even at around $30K depending. Does the engine make it a GT3? I think we all would agree no. But, it would bring it right on par with the power. I'm probably into my car about $55k ish with purchase price and parts. That a hell of a bargain considering.

My buddy owns an engine shop in central MA. MC Racing. He will be building my 3.8L if I end of going that route. I was close to really thinking of importing a 996.1 GT3. I really do love the idea, but I'm not so sure that car is worth double mine based on enjoyment alone.

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I do love what Jethro did. An amazing idea that worked out in the end for him. But probably wouldn't be the best idea moving forward for anyone else, especially with all the other options (cheaper) available.
By fpena944
#259041
diddy2003 wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:59 pm
fpena944 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:13 pm
diddy2003 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:58 pm

I believe, from recollection, that he was trying to do something a little different and then opened up a giant can of worms. Very cool build, but I believe that the builders of the car have zero interest in doing another one. I think the exhaust costs more than the original car did. With the recent crop of engine swaps (LS, K24, Audi 2.7) unsure if anyone will be interested in doing another due to the headache/expense. I'm personally leaning towards the 3.8/4L route.
I've got almost 200k on my cabrio so looking at what options I'll have going forward. The sticky point for me though is that I could probably just buy another 2002 996 with fewer miles than it will cost me to rebuild the engine and recondition the top, suspension, and interior. But I've had this car for close to 14 years so kind of attached to it.

But I'm also thinking a 4 liter M96 rebuild would be the ideal way to go - although expensive!
These cars are hard in that, what's the price of enjoyment? For me, this car is like a heavily discounted bargain of an amazing sports car. I have had the benefit of driving many different great cars, and every time I drive mine after, it reminds me of how good it is. Hell, I've driven 996.2 GT3, 997.1 GT3, 997.2 GT3, and 991.2 GT3. All ceramic brake manual cars. I'm not so sure they are $100k+ "better" cars.

So, with that in mind, a 4.0L is also a heavily discounted bargain, even at around $30K depending. Does the engine make it a GT3? I think we all would agree no. But, it would bring it right on par with the power. I'm probably into my car about $55k ish with purchase price and parts. That a hell of a bargain considering.

My buddy owns an engine shop in central MA. MC Racing. He will be building my 3.8L if I end of going that route. I was close to really thinking of importing a 996.1 GT3. I really do love the idea, but I'm not so sure that car is worth double mine based on enjoyment alone.

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I do love what Jethro did. An amazing idea that worked out in the end for him. But probably wouldn't be the best idea moving forward for anyone else, especially with all the other options (cheaper) available.

What you mentioned about these cars being bargains is exactly why I have had my first 996 for all these years.

I considered going to a turbo and even a 996 GT3 before both of them skyrocketed in cost of acquisition.

In both cases I left the test drive thinking, "that was really fun but was it worth another $30k+ upgrade from my car?" and the answer was ultimately "no."

Now the exception to that is going the air-cooled route because when I drove a 964 it brought a joy to me that I had not felt anywhere else. But it's a completely different car and not as practical/useable especially as a daily driver. So in this case it's not so much the cost but the different experience.

But with the water-cooled cars they (until the 991+ models) feel pretty similar but just faster and better handling.

This is also why I added a Cayman to the mix as it offers that completely different experience.
By TheDeckMan
#259047
The cost of entry into the Turbo/GT3's alone has made a big jump in entry costs, then you toss on the costs of ownership which is not mentioned with them being an easy 2-3x in running costs. Then the "GT" Part price which really has gotten pretty wild. Seems like every part on the Turbos went from a couple hundred dollars to now its $1k+ any time you need anything.
By TheDeckMan
#259070
Skyhawk172 wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:10 am Bite your tongue 👅 says a turbo owner :boom:
:beerchug:

All the parts for the 997tt's engine drop including needing turbos has been a bit eye watering. At least it will be done and built to the hilt at this point. Sucks that it was spun cam sleeve and a seized vnt in one go....of course waiting on Kevin for the new turbos.
By TheDeckMan
#259095
Skyhawk172 wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:46 pm I’ve been watching your build from the beginning all I can say is wait for it legendary.
Thanks! Building two 911 turbos at the same time is like fighting a war on multiple fronts, at least some of the parts are cross compatible. I have been avoiding opening a third front with the GT3 but that one is building up :hiding:
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