[Crumpler]

Those seem like great numbers!

I once heard, and mostly agree, that performance is 90% operator and 10% equipment. But, I think that only applies when your equipment is in the same general class.

The general rule of thumb is that you double your horsepower for every atmosphere (14.7 psi) of boost. 90 hp is 30% of your NA 300hp. 30% of 14.7 psi is 4.41 psi. Really general guideline and many variables can significantly affect the outcome. But, for my car, that guideline turned out to be a close guess for my power increase.

Have you done any calculations on how much pressure your supercharger is going to produce? Because from what I'm seeing, it's going to be way over 10psi. At 6,200 rpm, you'll be spinning the supercharger at around 50k rpm with the 3.2" pulley. With our 5L motor, I would be expecting it to give you somewhere in the ballpark of 15 to 20 psi. Definitely well over 10psi. Does that jive with your own math and expectations? Maybe I'm missing something in my math :)

Hey Chris, I was getting a bigger pulley for the blower, the 3.2 came with it. Yeah, completely different set of concerns with this build, compared to the "wyndjammer".

In regards to a bigger pulley, I have choices, but was trying to pin down best option for 5-7 boost. I can't find an equation that get's me from impeller speed or pulley ratio (currently 2.03) and engine displacement (est 305 cubic inch/5L) to boost. Do you have an equation or link to a spreadsheet. Thanks man.

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[Crumpler]

Ok, that's above and beyond. I owe you a bottle of wine or something to that effect.
Thank you again.
Dave

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[Crumpler]

BTW - Have you changed anything for oil pickup in the pan? A spacer, scraper, etc? I would love to hear more about your experience in that area since you're actually taking it on the track

I have a spacer and longer pick up (Carl’s kit) still in the box. I was going to try that first. No issues will the stock set up so far but that was all NA.

[Crumpler]

Working feverishly;)

Mocked up a plywood plate first. Then used it as a template to cut the 5/16 aluminum.
Bracket work is just as tedious as last time BTW.
Probably mounted and uncounted the SC 75 times, trying to get the position perfect to line on the crank pulley.
I bought a 4.75 blower pulley, the five would have had potential profile issues on the hood unfortunately.
Still a ways to go but a big chunk of the grunt work done.

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[Crumpler]

Impressive would have been the first one working;)

Speaking of, I found a pic of any internal Powerdyne unit, I can see why the patent attorneys were not happy with Mr. Martin....

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[Crumpler]

Interesting that I felt I had something in my eye for the last couple of days. Kept flushing it out, but no success.
Driving me nuts, finally had my wife look at it, she’s a vet too. She’s like “ you have a piece of metal stuck in your cornea you jackass....”
Me: “Huh?”
The doctor, after telling me I should wear goggles, explains that they worry about leaving rust fragments in the cornea after they remove it.
I said good news, it’s aluminum.

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[Crumpler]

I have a spacer and longer pick up (Carl’s kit) still in the box. I was going to try that first. No issues will the stock set up so far but that was all NA.

Did you look into an accusump? It seems like it may more directly address the problem, albeit with a limited timeframe that it can deliver oil. I was thinking of that for my car. But I have no experience with them.

Nor myself, seen them but never installed one.
I had decided I wouldn’t need it until I started wheel to wheel racing. I think it would be pretty difficult to put it in a street car, you would have to start sacrificing interior. That’s a slippery slope ;)

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[Crumpler]

Progress made.
The horsepower gods were kind today. The six rib belt from the first SC setup somehow fit. I also had a suitable tensioner in my parts hoard. I cabbaged an old idle roller for the other side just to provide a little pulley wrap on the back side, the stakes being a little higher if more boost. Next step is placing the throttle carrier arm, just another fantastic perk of the S3 is that everything has to be smashed into this one area.
After that I plan on doing a control study to quantitate boost with the Labaw boost monitoring system ;)

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[Charlie]

Somewhat off topic: I had an MRI a while back. Tech asked a bunch of questions. One surprised me: "Are you a machinist or metalworker?" I said no, why? He said, "Steel fragments in the eye plus rotating high voltage magnetic fields, well, not a good combination." I decided maybe I won't get that knee mill after all. Or maybe I'll stick to aluminum.

On topic: This is really coming along. Can't wait to see the dyno runs and track pics.

[Crumpler]

So everything is on the car now.
This cap with a valve thing, not sure it’s good data at this point. With the cap on the outlet of the procharger and valve open I get no boost. Closed 2-3 at 2500 rpm give or take. It’s about the same as previous unit and about the same as me blowing into the boost gauge as hard as I can.
It’s definitely pushing more air then the previous unit just based on hand feel.
Going forward I completed install, no apparent leaks.
So it’s running fine, just a little bit of SC rattle at idle that stops abruptly as rpm go up.

It’s still up on jack stands but I ran it up to temp.
Goosing the throttle it sounds very impressive, but I don’t know what to make of the boost situation — not seeing any. I’m using a gauge that tees off the vac line that comes through firewall for the EZF. Is that a mistake, should it be off the manifold or throttle body directly?

When should I see boost in these V8’s, is my real question.
I didn’t go past a couple of throttle blips up to 3000 rpm, but never saw the gauge read less then 5-10 mm hg vacuum. I’ve had a vac gauge in this car for years. That’s how this engine has always done it really, I can’t say I’ve ever seen zero vacuum, even at WOT, as a NA car. Normal I assume?

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[Crumpler]

Thanks for following Chris, yeah I just went back and repeated. Est 3-4 lbs boost at roughly 3000 rpm.
I checked the gauge with a power bleeder it reads two pounds off but that baseline factored in.
The cap is on the first elbow after the outlet.
But, I just figured out that with the cap on. There’s air flow out of the SC intake so that’s where the pressure is going apparently. So results make sense, which means neither one of us is crazy, yet.

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[Crumpler]

The Tial BOV is ordered but hasn’t shipped yet, which is irritating.
Got it, I will probably take it out today and see what the hell I have created.

Here’s a dog that ate a kong for no apparent reason, which I had the pleasure of removing after hours yesterday.

But dog’s making bad choices are what pay for the supercharger;)

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[worf]

Here’s a dog that ate a kong for no apparent reason, which I had the pleasure of removing after hours yesterday.

Dafuq is a "kong?" Looks like a shoe?

But dog’s making bad choices are what pay for the supercharger;)

While I love dogs, I have noted that they, in general, make poorer choices than cats.

[Polecat702]

Here’s a dog that ate a kong for no apparent reason, which I had the pleasure of removing after hours yesterday.

Dafuq is a "kong?" Looks like a shoe?

But dog’s making bad choices are what pay for the supercharger;)

While I love dogs, I have noted that they, in general, make poorer choices than cats.

A Kong is a rubber chew that you can inject a treat like peanut butter, or cheese spread into, and the dog can lick it out. My Ridgeback loved hers, though she never swallowed it. She'd work on it for as long as it had peanut butter in it.

[worf]

A Kong is a rubber chew that you can inject a treat like peanut butter, or cheese spread into, and the dog can lick it out. My Ridgeback loved hers, though she never swallowed it. She'd work on it for as long as it had peanut butter in it.

So my wife informed me.

Rhodesians - I assume you refer to Rhodesian Ridgebacks - are awesome dogs.

[Crumpler]

There was a rubber “object” a few years ago, that I removed from a dog that I could not identify. The people told me it was a dog toy, but also both parties blushed. I assume it was some type of bizarre sex toy, you would have to use your imagination for the rest.

Anyway. Ok I talked to Chris and Jason about this last night but I need consensus or a sanity check.
Drove it last night. Ran well, I would say real gains but you know how it is when you haven’t driven the car for awhile, and it always seems faster.
No boost seen with conservative driving however.
I got on it a little, maybe 3500 rpm in third gear and it dropped vacuum and maybe a pound of boost seen then. It’s a needle gauge and hard to track while driving .
So to recap, 32v 5.0 86.5 with a procharger P-1sc-1.
Crank pulley is 6.5 inches and blower pulley is 4.75 inches.
When would you expect to see boost with this five liter engine? Later at higher rpms? WOT?
Or do I need to be concerned, I think the odds are low that I would get two bad SC’s in a row. But my current tune may be shit. I guess my plan was to take it out and push it hard, if no boost use a smaller pulley and see.
Thoughts?

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[SeanR]

You won't see any boost until you get on it well. I can drive around at 4k rpm at partial throttle and will show no boost as the BOV is opening. Put your foot down and you should be getting boost.

[Landseer]

Did you get any legit input on swapping the controller embedded 85/6 MAP sensor with a re-ranged version that handles pressure? Takes a lot of rpm to get off the suppressed part of the fuel map if that sensor doesnt see the vac level it's looking for. And stock, it certainly does not read pressure.

Again, learned this on a non boosted car when chasing a terrible sluggishness sub 3500 rpm, discovering broken diaphragm. Not to beat it to death, but the performance was so bad it was ridiculous.

[amdavid]

Please report back on a few WOT runs somewhere safe. :mrgreen:

You won't see any boost until you get on it well. I can drive around at 4k rpm at partial throttle and will show no boost as the BOV is opening. Put your foot down and you should be getting boost.

[Crumpler]

Appreciate the help you guys.
Here’s the latest:
Got on it as much as you can in an urban setting.
5000 rpm in third, no boost. I feel comfortable saying that’s WOT.

Now we need to check my work. Because obviously I’m missing something basic. The tune is irrelevant I assume. Rpm equals impeller spin equals boost right.

Pics of basic set up to confirm rotation is correct.
Crank is CCW in our car.
Belt drives SC CCW with inlet facing rear.
Volute is CCW on SC.
Impeller follows volute which is CCW.
Here’s where my head hurts: Procharger lists this model as reverse drive instead of standard.

[Crumpler]

Yes.
Reverse drive impeller. As I rotate blower pulley CCW the fucking impeller goes CW.

Son of a bitch.
This is how I roll through life gentlemen.

Ok. I have reached out to procharger to see if there is a drive conversion kit or parts.
Or I can reverse mount the fucker and try to use the alternator pulley somehow.
Clockwise impeller?

[Crumpler]

Helical gears make conversion problematic apparently.
I’m looking at ATI damper pulleys. I have Greg’s super damper sitting in a box. Tentatively, I could turn SC around. Or sell the SC and do homework next time.

[Landseer]

LOL. You are, and will remain, far more successful than me on my best days! Thanks to you and Chris for putting boost into an understandable thread for rest of us.

Maybe buy another you know you will be happy with, then sell the current. Reverse of that would slow your copious momentum.

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[Polecat702]

A Kong is a rubber chew that you can inject a treat like peanut butter, or cheese spread into, and the dog can lick it out. My Ridgeback loved hers, though she never swallowed it. She'd work on it for as long as it had peanut butter in it.

So my wife informed me.

Rhodesians - I assume you refer to Rhodesian Ridgebacks - are awesome dogs.

Agreed Dave, she was an awesome dog indeed! Had her for 17 years. At my age doubtful if I'll ever get another dog, and my cat is 11 years old. When he's gone it'll be the last pet for me. Hell he might out live me, LOL.

[Polecat702]

Yes.
Reverse drive impeller. As I rotate blower pulley CCW the fucking impeller goes CW.

Son of a bitch.
This is how I roll through life gentlemen.

Ok. I have reached out to procharger to see if there is a drive conversion kit or parts.
Or I can reverse mount the fucker and try to use the alternator pulley somehow.
Clockwise impeller?

It's really a shame you can't get one of Victor's VCB, supercharger set ups. I was lucky and Jeff Spahn, sold me his and Victor and Jeff flew out to Vegas and installed it and Shark Tuned it for me. It's great to have such fantastic friends. Plus Victor's was completely thought out, engineered, and performs as advertised. I was patient, and one became available.

[G8RB8]

Are you spinning it the right way?

[Crumpler]

LOL. You are, and will remain, far more successful than me on my best days! Thanks to you and Chris for putting boost into an understandable thread for rest of us.

Maybe buy another you know you will be happy with, then sell the current. Reverse of that would slow your copious momentum.

Thanks, but you are being kind. You are a real mechanic and I’ve always been a parts replacer.

I agree. It's easy to spend someone else's money, but selling the current one and buying the correct one, for a loss, would be worth it to me personally to get it exactly how I want it.

HOWEVER, if one of the objectives is a budget build, then definitely find a way to reorient what you have :) I think that you could make it work with a little thought and work. Your idea on the pulley arrangement is feasible.

I've been really good about not bringing up the turbo option, but...it's an option!

Seriously, man. Your work to this point has been phenomenal. No matter where you go from here, it's going to be awesome.

Appreciate the support, especially yesterday. It’s strange how these cars bring people together.
Research on ATI pulleys was discouraging in terms of getting proper placement, very few options and none looked plug and play. So, yeah I got calls out for new units.

Yes.
Reverse drive impeller. As I rotate blower pulley CCW the fucking impeller goes CW.

Son of a bitch.
This is how I roll through life gentlemen.

Ok. I have reached out to procharger to see if there is a drive conversion kit or parts.
Or I can reverse mount the fucker and try to use the alternator pulley somehow.
Clockwise impeller?

It's really a shame you can't get one of Victor's VCB, supercharger set ups. I was lucky and Jeff Spahn, sold me his and Victor and Jeff flew out to Vegas and installed it and Shark Tuned it for me. It's great to have such fantastic friends. Plus Victor's was completely thought out, engineered, and performs as advertised. I was patient, and one became available.

I actually called Jeff about that same kit, but he said he had sold it to a friend!

Are you spinning it the right way?

Believe so, but it’s up for sale